Poll about class balance. Leave your opinion

[Cyane 230]

Hi

First of all , this poll is just that, a poll. i dont want to change anything, in fact im very comfortable with class balance atm, evidence of it is the high variety of classes we can see everyday and the constant need of them. Most of all due to the debuff system imho, since the high debuff lr made all classes (including supports) interesting to play as main.

So, i want to know what people think about taking any / none of this claims as a base guideline for discussing class balance, specially before all the changes of 2.0. It will be interesting.

1) So there you have 4 options that have been said in the forum multiple times. The examples may vary, but what i want to know is if you agree on taking that "system" as valid. You can check more than one.

2) Define l2 class balance, if you can...

Edited May 23, 2017 by Cyane

[GanjaRockzZz 304]

This is Why we dont get 2.0 we talk about the same  again and again (fear-stun-mage MC-gladi blaster) and we we call admninistrations to check them again and again every single time someone got rekt starts a poll or a report.
Nothing personal Cyane your post just make me feel talk about all this guys.....

[Deibu 12]

I like system 1 the most. Why? It gives all classes an oppurtunity to be the best. During every stage of the game. It makes all classes needed. Instead of everyone being archer or mage. 

[Kosmos_VN 18]

this is not how balance work, this is not how all of this work 

[Cyane 230]

31 minutes ago, Kosmos_VN said:

this is not how balance work, this is not how all of this work 

Then i invite you to define balance

[Cyane 230]

Its clear that if 3 and 4 is what we believe, we shouldnt be surprised to see epics and sieges/mass pvps dominated exclusively by ranged dds for example (mages mostly).

Edited May 23, 2017 by Cyane

[Deibu 12]

58 minutes ago, Cyane said:

Its clear that if 3 and 4 is what we believe, we shouldnt be surprised to see epics and sieges/mass pvps dominated exclusively by ranged dds for example (mages mostly).

Your other methods are ridicilous because its very very very hard to find any form of "balance" within them. Because the parameters range and location are hard to work with.

Rock paper sciccors is easy! Like it should be.. its a basic. Then it gets complex by adding lvls and equipment. But also fair because then someone with nolife could be the strongest because he gets ++ items and lvl. Too bad this is for donators too but hey we want this server xP.

All I want to say with this "balance" system you get to enjoy the game because you can see people that are really good with their chars own people that dont play their chars right. Even if they have ++ gear. And it also forces people to think about the party setup. 

I think the server is pretty balanced or else we would see a overflow of 1 chartype wich it doesnt. (maybe summoners and daggers but different discussion :'))

wanted to add some more cents.

[Stiba007 225]

6. All is about players. Not chars. U can see 2 same chars and extremly difference between them.

1st guy use 100% potencial his char, have good overview on battlefield, use terrain around him, use smart his skills and think about targets.

2nd guy see first enemy, run on him, use all dmg skills and for 10secs havent mp

Btw. Good video Capone

Edited May 23, 2017 by Stiba007

[Dancerok 21]

Rubbish, better nefr necros and poll can be closed 

[Arcanum 312]

there isn't, never was and probably never will be, a fair class "balance" in lineage 2 for everyone.

that's because it's always been a game following the traditional rock-paper-scissor method of balancing classes, and also because NCSoft has always focused their mmos on group play and party setup, rather than giving fair chances to every class in 1vs1.

so while the rock-paper-scissor method does add variety partially, it also locks some classes from having any chances to survive/kill the opponent in a normal battle.

 

in my opinion, the game was a bit more balanced and classes had more builds variety back in interlude times, even thou it still had many flaws such as insane magic crits, destroyers soloing raid bosses and so on.

right now, i think of Classic as an hybrid version of GoD, or rather, it's what GoD should have become instead, without removing class variety and putting limits only to 8 different classes due to class balance.

what happened with GoD was basicly NCSoft taking the wrong path, wich is why now there's 2 versions of Lineage 2.

 

right now, i think our customized version of L2C is doing quite ok gameplay-wise, althou the major letdown here is the landrate of some debuffs from specific classes wich has become literally a joke( and a bad one too ) compared to older chronicles, but as i said before, the game concept of PvP was never balanced around 1v1, but group vs group.

needless to say that with the addition of new skills and new effects, class balance shifting was to be expected soon or later.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Arcanum

[BlackJack 574]

1 minute ago, Arcanum said:

there isn't, and never was and probably never will be, a fair class "balance" in lineage 2 for everyone.

that's because it's always been a game following the traditional rock-paper-scissor method of balancing classes, and also because NCSoft has always focused their mmos on group play and party setup, rather than giving fair chances to every class in 1vs1.

so while the rock-paper-scissor method does add variety partially, it also locks some classes from having any chances to survive/kill the opponent in a normal battle.

 

in my opinion, the game was a bit more balanced and classes had more builds variety back in interlude times, even thou it still had many flaws such as insane magic crits, destroyers soloing raid bosses and so on.

right now, i think of Classic as an hybrid version of GoD, or rather, it's what GoD should have become instead, without removing class variety and putting limits only to 8 different classes due to class balance.

what happened with GoD was basicly NCSoft taking the wrong path, wich is why now there's 2 versions of Lineage 2.

 

right now, i think our customized version of L2C is doing quite ok gameplay-wise, althou the major letdown here is the landrate of some debuffs from specific classes wich has become literally a joke( and a bad one too ) compared to older chronicles, but as i said before, the game concept of PvP was never balanced around 1v1, but group vs group.

needless to say that with the addition of new skills and new effects, class balance shifting was to be expected soon or later.

Debuffs will become much worse with 2.0 so and silence is nerfed to 24secs, so stuff like DA fear or Necro / ol silence will be much weaker compared to now. And currently they are slowly fading into better spam damage category.

I voted for option 3 and i feel it's in full effect atm. As you may know i play in an archer CP and in LoA 9v9 I feel our party is 50% weaker by default compared to in open zones where you can kite like abg. Picking the smart terrain to fight according to you classes advantage is a huge factor. For example mage parties are much stronger in loa than they would usually be because in classic they play with a warlord and a warlord can stunlock and close a corner and choke hold the enemy very easily.

[GanjaRockzZz 304]

23 minutes ago, Dancerok said:

Rubbish, better nefr necros and poll can be closed 

Dont you dare Touch Necro !

[BlackJack 574]

2 hours ago, Cyane said:

Its clear that if 3 and 4 is what we believe, we shouldnt be surprised to see epics and sieges/mass pvps dominated exclusively by ranged dds for example (mages mostly).

Yes but good players will always try to engage in such position that their melee are more than meat shield. Also having a strong melee cp is the back bone of any ranged group because without them you get destroyed by bards/tanks and people rushing in given the chance. For example lets take LoA pvp:

A melee party 9v9 in LoA is fucking awesome because you can engage smartly and mobs don't bother you as much as a lower armored / hp classes. Also there aren't many places where an archer party can kite you back meaningfully. But in mass pvp you are mostly CC/damage soakers.

An archer party in 9v9 LoA is fucking useless most of the time becuase you can't kite back and vs mages if they fight smartly abusing the fact they have warlord you can never brake the choke hold they create. But if you have a melee party with you for example to soak that so you can get free damage in and prevent bards rushing on top of archers you are instantly the kings of range dps.

A mage party is 9v9 is the hardest to judge because it highly depends on how good the mage players are. Using you warlord smartly can make choke holds impossible to break in 9v9 and in bigger fights you are insanely important because you are the only ones that can get rid of the tanks/bards frontlines. But also you ran out of mana in bigger fights compared to archers.

So in the end every classes/setup has advantages and disadvantages, it's up to the players to play up to their strenghts and try to avoid their weaknesses getting exploited.

[BlackJack 574]

3 minutes ago, GanjaRockzZz said:

Dont you dare Touch Necro !

necro is rip in 2.0 anyway =D

Edited May 23, 2017 by BlackJack

[Dancerok 21]

19 minutes ago, Arcanum said:

there isn't, never was and probably never will be, a fair class "balance" in lineage 2 for everyone.

that's because it's always been a game following the traditional rock-paper-scissor method of balancing classes, and also because NCSoft has always focused their mmos on group play and party setup, rather than giving fair chances to every class in 1vs1.

so while the rock-paper-scissor method does add variety partially, it also locks some classes from having any chances to survive/kill the opponent in a normal battle.

 

in my opinion, the game was a bit more balanced and classes had more builds variety back in interlude times, even thou it still had many flaws such as insane magic crits, destroyers soloing raid bosses and so on.

right now, i think of Classic as an hybrid version of GoD, or rather, it's what GoD should have become instead, without removing class variety and putting limits only to 8 different classes due to class balance.

what happened with GoD was basicly NCSoft taking the wrong path, wich is why now there's 2 versions of Lineage 2.

 

right now, i think our customized version of L2C is doing quite ok gameplay-wise, althou the major letdown here is the landrate of some debuffs from specific classes wich has become literally a joke( and a bad one too ) compared to older chronicles, but as i said before, the game concept of PvP was never balanced around 1v1, but group vs group.

needless to say that with the addition of new skills and new effects, class balance shifting was to be expected soon or later.

Well, I agree with the term, but tell me why they add such a thing like olympiad than?? Where basicly y have to fight 1x1.... What for to see how 2 or 3 classes which dominating in PvP  1x1(Necro, DA, gladi) dominate at oly as well? 

[Dancerok 21]

Just now, BlackJack said:

necro is rip with song of purifaction anyway ;D

Nice one get 80 lvl first after say about this song, as far as I know at gk still no even 1 80 lvl 

[BlackJack 574]

Just now, Dancerok said:

Nice one get 80 lvl first after say about this song, as far as I know at gk still no even 1 80 lvl 

our server is x3 , also on GK they lose exp in sieges =]

[GanjaRockzZz 304]

9 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

Debuffs will become much worse with 2.0 so and silence is nerfed to 24secs, so stuff like DA fear or Necro / ol silence will be much weaker compared to now. And currently they are slowly fading into better spam damage category.

I voted for option 3 and i feel it's in full effect atm. As you may know i play in an archer CP and in LoA 9v9 I feel our party is 50% weaker by default compared to in open zones where you can kite like abg. Picking the smart terrain to fight according to you classes advantage is a huge factor. For example mage parties are much stronger in loa than they would usually be because in classic they play with a warlord and a warlord can stunlock and close a corner and choke hold the enemy very easily.

Well true its almost all about  terrain.For example a mage pt vs archer pt is a open zone  0-1 but in an area with trees rocks e.t.c you can interrupte most of the skills on archer especcialy on PR fatal got slow cast easy to interrupte so all you need is  1brain 2kite techincs 3 advantage On battlefield

[Dancerok 21]

Moreover, Thay add PvP events for 1x1 like one in TOI 

[Dancerok 21]

1 minute ago, GanjaRockzZz said:

Well true its almost all about  terrain.For example a mage pt vs archer pt is a open zone  0-1 but in an area with trees rocks e.t.c you can interrupte most of the skills on archer especcialy on PR fatal got slow cast easy to interrupte so all you need is  1brain 2kite techincs 3 advantage On battlefield

mage party vs archer open zone 0-1, pfff use your aden castle circle and do them perma fear runing 

[Dancerok 21]

6 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

our server is x3 , also on GK they lose exp in sieges =]

oh yea so we waiting for 2.0 year, and will be waiting for sws 80 year 

[kkthx 245]

If u want ballance i will give u pro tip:

Add to game dices from previous chronicles and solve PvPs based on dice rolls w.o even leaving town. LOLOLOLOLOL

Not to mention 80% of disballance is caused by players that re too noob to win any pvp.
Thats also why L2 is now CP based, to make it feels more balanced. 
 

Edited May 23, 2017 by kkthx

[Dancerok 21]

Y telling about NCsoft balance and that your mangel hands doesn't allow you to win 1x1 pvp, oke tell me than IF THIS GAME SO BALANCED, why none play for example Temple Knight? DO you ever see high lvl temple knight here? Go win pvp with TK 1x1 against same necro, I know only Venu who is TK but never see him trying PvP 1x1 I guess he has a reason for this, Y can tell me tanks doesn't suppose to kill in PvP they are not dd's, Oh yea really? Say this to DA or SK 

[Arcanum 312]

32 minutes ago, Dancerok said:

Well, I agree with the term, but tell me why they add such a thing like olympiad than?? Where basicly y have to fight 1x1.... What for to see how 2 or 3 classes which dominating in PvP  1x1(Necro, DA, gladi) dominate at oly as well?

that's because back in c4 there was 2 kinds of olympiads: general, and class based.

they removed class based in Classic probably to avoid people feeding points to allies in order to lock heroes, so by doing that they basicly got rid of feeders, but at the same time they also messed up support classes matching.

12 minutes ago, Dancerok said:

Y can tell me tanks doesn't suppose to kill in PvP they are not dd's, Oh yea really? Say this to DA or SK

SK isn't exactly a "pure" tank anyway.

it's more like a shaman stuck into a dark elf's body, too bad people here play them as tanks, instead of mages like they're supposed to be.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Arcanum

[Dancerok 21]

1 minute ago, Arcanum said:

SK isn't exactly a "pure" tank anyway.

it's more like a shaman stuck into a dark elf's body, too bad people here play them as tanks, instead of mages like they're supposed to be.

Well, If y class Icon y can see shiel crest + desciption wll say defending class, I understand your point of view but for shalan class he is kinda too fat, don't y think so? I mean look how much hawk will do with double to sk and for example to wc