FinalFen

My bad, sorry :f

They removed it on classic chronicles?

OL is/will be another source of Empower, although not sure if he gets Empoer earlier on, or after 3rd class transfer. (apparently I was wrong and they removed EMP from OL on the classic chronicles)

and the color

Don't know man, in the end it's still just a 9 party event where everyone hold 1 key - aggro / recharge / heal / attack / buff. No skill requirement or anything, As long as you have good enough setup and equipment, it's just a repetitive crap :f EPIC's are different story because they are a source of often nice mass pvp, but when it comes to regular raids, it's usually just a ninja action But ofc I can understand why plenty of CP's / Clans appreciate Raids and are big fans of them.

agreed

Hey the other day when I was farming Portas in CT, I've heared an full drop sound, picked it up - it was a Draconic Bow, but when I opened my inventory I could only see animal bones can I get some help too ? ;>

I'm still not sure if this is a troll thread or not ;d

Why are we suddenly comparing DA with TK in mass PvP ? Anyways what more DA provides then TK during a fight ? Maybe a short cast time and high land rate stun ? And I wouldn't say that DA and TK have different "functions" in PvP. It's just that DA has it's role and place (disable core targets) while TK simply has no role, he just walks there hoping someone will target him ^^ Generally speaking I don't disagree with your knowledge, because you know what you are speaking about for the most part, but you seem to overinterprate what I'm saying and trying to argue with things which wasn't said or suggested

Reaper when quoting someone you srsly shouldn't cherry pick parts of someones post, cutting sentences in between, changing their meaning just to create a flame ground for yourself. I never suggested that PW is a good class choice for him. What I said, and what you should read again is that if he really likes the elven lore and wants an elven fighter there are 3 better choices than TK, because the truth is that even PW is better of a pick simply because he's more fun to play (that's a general specific of dagger classes - lots of active abilities and high burst). With that said I've still added a note that PW is the weakest of all daggers so not sure what are you talking about. Regarding SR, once again IF he likes the ELVEN FIGHTERS and no matter what he wants to make an elven figther, then yet again picking SR is better than going TK. 1 thing is that SR is way more fun to play during PvP. Since he's an archer class, he's naturally very efficient during PvP's and further more there's a lot smaller drop in PvP power when comparing PR to SR than if you compared DA to TK, where DA outshines TK so badly, that the poor elf simply becomes blind :< And yes I do agree, that if you have a nice and fun personality you will find your CP anyway, but where's your point ? I never said that TK won't find a CP/Group, but that he isn't as wellcomed as other classes because of what it will be harder to find a group, and some groups (tryhards) will simply be not achievable for you. Hard to find =/= Won't find. Less aggression more agreession! (ok that one was dumb :D)

bump

THIS People should stop trying to be nice at all cost or to troll a guy who might be wasting months of gameplay just to realise his class decision was a one big mistake. If certain class is boring and weak just say it. Even if it looks that one guy likes particular class lore/concept and you don't want ot discourage him for picking what he might consider to be optimal for him, you still should give him nothing but hard and reliable arguments. Stuff like "well TK isn't the best tank but definitely has it's own place and can be fun to play" is just a sad troll (be it intended or not) :f To sum up this flame thread with almost no input on what OP was asking: TK is: Boring to PvE Boring to PvP Heavily reliant on having a good party because he farms slow Has little in terms of active and impactfull skills Isn't wellcomed in most CP's / CLAN's who are planning to PvP and contest EPIC's one day If you simply like the lore concept and want an elf fighter, choose: SWS for the tankish/supportish purposes SR - if you want range fighter PW - if you want a melee dpser (although he's arguably weakest of the daggers) If you like the concept of tanks and want to be annoying to enemies, choose: DA - Arguably strongest tank, that farms fastest, has reasonable ammount of DPS (due to having a summon), is tankiest of em all and will be a beast in the future Olympiad games SK - Arguably most fun to play of all the tanks, a lot of active abilities/nukes, highest autoattack DPS of all tanks and interesting skillset (but is least tanky) and his general PvP power is below DA Paladin - currently crap which might become a powerfull and fun to play TANK in the future chronicles if you simply want to be tanky and not really perform as a typical tank you can consider as well: Warlord - with +con dyes he's a very tanky class, with awesome farming potential, wellcomed in most fighter parties, who brings quite a lot of fun when fighting in the mass PvPs, but to play efficiently you need a dedicated recharger and after you run out of mana (what happens fast) can't do much more than simply tickle enemies with bow Destroyer - naturally tanky hero who can become almost immune to physical dmg for 1.5 minute (GUTS), high DPS and decent for solo farming, he's main weakness is that he has no range abilities and can be very boring to PvP with

Not sure if I can agree with that. If we had SA on weapons then ye Archers wouild achieve near 400 crit rate with a bow but without that average archer with COV will sit on around 300-340(?) crit rate (unless there was a crit rate change in Classic). So you are still earning effectively around 170-200 crit rate (which is freaking a lot) and doubt I would pass it for any other rune.

You would be a fine politician mate

Btw what's fun about doing RB's ? You stand there pressing 1 key and afking for the most part. if your "fun" refers to gaiing exp while being afk, that's more of a convinience than fun :f My personal opinion is that RB's shouldn't even be in this game (excluding EPIC's) it provokes passive gameplay, allows players to gain EXP at a very high rate while afking and are very limited (at least at well populated servers) to the vast of unorginised community while giving yet another unearned advantage to the CP's. Need of running around the map doing nothing, or relogging different checking chars, doesn't bring much to the gameplay either

Ofc there is a reason :f Think for a moment about how many people were always annoyed with the fact that nukers and archers dominate all of the mass PvPs due to their range DPS and inability to close the range before dying when playing as a warrior. With additionall crit rate (even if they will cap after using only 180 crit rate from othell) archers will become even more deadly and there will be even less chance for fighters to close the distance. So archers will greatly increase their PvP potential while melee fightes (who by many are considered underwhelming even without the othell runes in the play) will gain almost nothing since most of their dmg is coming from skills anyway :f It will only further strengthen the always existing archer and nuker meta :f

Just keep in mind that active supports will slow your farm a lot while not increasing your killing speed all that much (buffs pre-44 are crap) so if you want to invite a 20-40 buffer to your party, make sure he actually has a proper weapon and is planning to autoattack together with you

I would suggest sth like that: 0 - 20 W/E you lvl up fast everywhere 20 - 24 Abandoned Camp 25 -30 Partisans (At this time you should make the Moon Armor quest) 31 - 38 Ant Nest (it's fast but need a buffer and antidotes) / Execution Grounds / Bee Hive 38 - 44 Aligator Island or Ivory Tower 45 - 52 Outskirts of Ivory Tower / Enchanted Valley This of course aren't the only places where you can exp, but are checked and generally appreciated by players. Most of them is AoE'ble as well.

And I always thought it's the guy who makes a train (gather mobs) noob deteceted

Its all about the buffs, Mage without empower 3 looses a lot of potential DPS and then has to sit to regen mana. Due to the downtime required to regenerate mana overall DPS potential get's really low. On the other hand average DD requires only haste 2 buff and can continously inflict dmg without any downtimes (+dance of fire is a massive boost which you get early on - lvl 40). In the end I wouldn't cry about lower RB potential on early levels when being a Nuker since you are already uncomparably better at solo/aoe farming then most(all?) DD's. Nukers are simply too good in every aspect of the game :f

Thanks a lot for this explanation. After what you said, my explanation sure makes no sense Had no idea that they made different dmg scalling on WL and Tyrant in Classic. Lots of usefull tips here guys, thanks a lot. Now I like my class decission even more

But is it realistical ? I feel that it's easier to find an AoE party/group as a dagger then to it is to find 4 recharges and make efficient trains as Tyrant It's like saying that PP with a bow can solo farm Kariks. Well ye if he really wants to, he can kill them but is it rly worth it ? I would even risk saying that it would be faster/more efficient to farm trains on a dwarf with spinning slasher then with the Tyrant's AoE

Don't know man, maybe you'r right but the data sure doesn't confirm that 70 lvl Tyrant: Force Burst - 99 mp - 475 power (5 power per 1 MP) Force Storm - 85 mp - 475 power (5,5 power per 1 MP) 70 lvl Warlord: Whirlwind - 71 mp - 2439 power (34 power per 1 MP) ThunderStorm - 102 mp - 1854 power (and stun) ( 18 power per 1 MP) Quick Spear - 112 mp - 2726 power (and stun) (24 power per 1 MP) That's 5-7 times better mana efficiency when doing AoE trains speaking for Warlord. To give you a clearer example: If WL to finish a big train needs 3-4 mana pools (own mana pool and then being recharged) that means that Tyrant would need his mana pool to be completely refilled 15-28 times. Sure if you get 5 rechargers on your back you can do AoE trains as a Tyrant but even then you don't have the stun :f

Maybe if you get 5 recharges on his back When it comes to mele AoE it's almost never about AoE DPS but mana efficiency. WL will probably tripple Tyrant's AoE dmg when using same ammount of mana (dont remember exact numbers).

Honestly I don't see almost any difference in PvE potential between Daggers and most of bruisers/archers. I mean Tyrant/Glad/Archers - they all can't efficiently AoE and need to be carried for the most part (and usually aren't very wellcomed in AoE parties unless you have a CP). When it comes to daggers, they are actually using the highest DPS weapon type in the game so definitely they are better/faster then most solo hitters especially if you take a BD into the party (your crit rate combined with dance of fire starts to obliterate most of mobs whose hp isnt x3+). Furthermore if you have a full buff party, daggers can simply switch to bows, the dps drop compared to a regular archer isn't that big and they will definitely do a very acceptable dps. Won't comment on the dagger PvP balance since I have no clue how it looks/should look on the classic servers, but I'll just say that daggers sweet spot was always the not full buff, un-orginised PvP so this should probably be the playing ground fo daggers PvP potential analysis.