Light armor mastery improvement

[Rizos]

Hello,

Im playing here around 1 month and i came here to play oldschool l2, like it was around 10 years ago, when i liked it the most. Unfortunately i see many things dipper classic server from c3/c4/c5 chronicles.I can understand class balancing factors(changes in skills etc) but let this game atleast look like good old l2. My hearth hurts when i see every1 runing in heavy or robe sets. Where are all these light armor users? Why isnt it viable option like it was on old l2 chronicles? Im playing light armor using class also(tyrant), unfortunately light armor passive(agile movement +10 speed +3 accuracy) has been removed on classic version (i dont kno what was the reason..) I also have many friends daggers and archers here and i see them complaining everyday on clan chat, how bad they feel about runing in hvy. My friend AW looks like SK without cubics...

The problem is using heavy sets on these classes has its reasons. Light armor rly sucks here, evasion doesnt even help on pve, mobs can hit u even through ultimate evasion. Its either mobs having too high acuracy or characters too low evasin in light armor. But this is a minor problem, I would care more about pvp. Lets be honest, who the hell auto attacks on pvp? Its either warriors stuning, casting skills or archers stuning + double shoting or mages nuking. You would attoattack only when ur out of mana. I understand it was always like this but ON OLD CHRONICLES SKILLS DID MUCH LOWER DMG THAN NOW.  SKILL DMG FORMULA CHANGED  ON INTERLUDE TO INCLUDE SOULSHOT X2 DMG BONUS. Ppl used more auto attacks ebcause skills were weak back then and i feel like evasion worked in different way, archers were missing daggers etc. IT WAS COOL.

Main problem is that this is how it works on official servers, and this how its meant to be by ncsoft. But does any1 like it? I agree to keep most of things original, not customized. Customizing things lead to rly bad situation. We all know it from high rate servers ( NPC buffers, custom sets, stucksub, faction). I dont know how about you but i rly hate these things BUT if we make custom changes smart, we can improve the game. We can make it more offschool, more classic And i guess this is what we all want. Just keep in mind not to change class ballance.

Here are my suggestions how to solve this problem:

1. Improve light armor mastery passive or add 2nd passive with New effect( so the character has 2). You could for example double p def bonus from the passive, other option is to greatly increase evasion the passive gives (15 instead of 7 evasion). Double passive bonus option is the easiest to implement and it doesnt change class ballance much, passive p def bonusx2 and +14 evasion might be good option. Other option is to add new effect. I played tyrant a lot and he had nice passive to motivate ppl for using light set. It was +10 speed and 3 accuracy. I think you could add 10 speed to light armor mastery( this can change kiteing mechanics so it might be bad idea and ppl would still switch to hvy in most situations). You could add bonus +3 str, or +3 con +6 evasion while wearing light. Other option is to add like 5-10% atk speed bonus or 5-10% p atk bonus(this could have bad influence on mage/fighter class balance, if there is any :P). There are many ways you could change that, im up for other suggestions. My best suggestion (dunno if its possible or easy to make) is to add 1 new effect to passive light armor mastery skill - greater agility- has a chance to avoid physical skill damage(avoid also stun dmg but not debuff, it would be passive working like daggers ultimate evasion from hellbound chronicle if someone remembers, but passive skill and much lower effect) 5% on 20lvl, 10% on 30lvl, 15% on 40lvl, 20% on 50, 25% on 60 and 30% on 70 and increases character evasion by 6/7/8/9/10/11(on 20/30/40/50/60/70 lvls), eventually +2 MP recovery bonus I think would have good influence in game, and would make light armor option viable for some classes, also dont change the passive on buffers which have also other armor masteries. You could consider addint it to glad and destro tho, its up to u, but main classes im talking about are daggers and archers.

2. Nerf Heavy armor usuage bonus without heavy armor mastery skill. You can either decrease speed/atkspeed (-10/-10%) for these who wear heavy w/o skill mastery, or decrease p def by 10% or so.

3. Keep it like it is now, retaillike and watch these daggers/archers in full plates, bw and doom heavys.

Vote a poll please and add your sugegstions

/discuss

[enf0rcer]

The light armor passive basically doesn't add shit. Its about 1 p.def per level. So to double that wouldn't help anything. The real problem is evasion. It is so broken at the moment, it's absolutely insane. Even with ultimate evasion i can't dodge lower level mobs. I think we need atleast 20 more evasion to make things work like it should.

[qloc01]

simply becoz that evasion doesnt mean skill evasion anymore, classic is a downgrade of GOD,something is just broken and cant be fixed

[Cyane]

In summary: since in classic the damage done by skills has been improved a lot in fighters classes (especially double shot for archers) they prefer to use skills instead of auto-hit. 

So some stat parameters given by dex (accuracy, critical rate, evasion) and by Light armor masteries (25%/35% less chances of being hit by criticals, evasion, accuracy) are not important factors on pvp anymore. This is because physical skills do not depend on accuracy, evasion, critical rate.

So heavy armor sets are selected for pvp because of their higher p.def. P.def does protect them against physycal skills. The same argument with carrying a shield for daggers. It protects them against both physical skills and nukers.

[datplays]

so if Cyane is right there re two option, boost light passive or keep official, coz nerfing heavy would kill those classes.

[Rizos]

In summary: since in classic the damage done by skills has been improved a lot in fighters classes (especially double shot for archers) they prefer to use skills instead of auto-hit. 

So some stat parameters given by dex (accuracy, critical rate, evasion) and by Light armor masteries (25%/35% less chances of being hit by criticals, evasion, accuracy) are not important factors on pvp anymore. This is because physical skills do not depend on accuracy, evasion, critical rate.

So heavy armor sets are selected for pvp because of their higher p.def. P.def does protect them against physycal skills. The same argument with carrying a shield for daggers. It protects them against both physical skills and nukers.

​Thx for good summary but its not all i wanted to say. There is also formula to evade auto attack changed in later chronicles compared to old c3 c4 c5, evasion was growing much faster since 70 lvl + than before 70 so "they made hance to hit high evasion target higher to balance it and dont make big issues to lower lvl players vs higher lvl players" c4 formula was like this: evasion cap was 27,5%. even if enemy had 9999 evasion u always had the minimum of 27,5% chance to hit him. the cap was on (evasion-accuracy)=27. So what we get now is changed formula but ppl are below 70 and have low evasion differences between different lvls. Thats why evasion doesnt work here cos u need big lvl advantage to feel any difference.

My point is to make any modification to encourage light armor users to use light sets so ppl can feel they play on classic server, not high rate java. It can be either acomplished by nerfing heavy armors on classes w/o mastery or greatly increasing evasion from pasives or adding other bonuses to lights

[Rizos]

simply becoz that evasion doesnt mean skill evasion anymore, classic is a downgrade of GOD,something is just broken and cant be fixed

​The reason is they just modded god and made classic from it. They didnt change all aspects of game and some of them left unchanged into classic because devs simply forgot about em (good example is vr working on skills and nukes). I think every1 who plays his class wants his class to get the biggest benefits of using items designed for this class. Am i right? If i was a dagger main it would be fking pain if i had to use hvy set and shield just cos its better option than light which is designed for my class and i have passives for it, and teh reason would be cos ncsoft failed to make it work well.

I think it can be fixed easily, its just many ppl here must share the opinion it should be changed

[qloc01]

simply becoz that evasion doesnt mean skill evasion anymore, classic is a downgrade of GOD,something is just broken and cant be fixed

​The reason is they just modded god and made classic from it. They didnt change all aspects of game and some of them left unchanged into classic because devs simply forgot about em (good example is vr working on skills and nukes). I think every1 who plays his class wants his class to get the biggest benefits of using items designed for this class. Am i right? If i was a dagger main it would be fking pain if i had to use hvy set and shield just cos its better option than light which is designed for my class and i have passives for it, and teh reason would be cos ncsoft failed to make it work well.

I think it can be fixed easily, its just many ppl here must share the opinion it should be changed

​you must know that all dev team here is still considered doing a simulating job, this server is just being re-creat based on official server, and what you think is easy, it maybe not. Yes, its must me more joy for players who chose rogue class, but at least for now, rogue with heavy armor is not that bad.

lets hope after totally complete all the tasks from 1.5, our dev team will have time to consider this and hopefully maybe war clan system and Lightning Strike will be fixed

[datplays]

Ofc dont forget, that on Classic nobody buy armor masteries, coz simply noone have free SP for that. Maybe thats why they choose hvy for more pdef

[Rizos]

Ofc dont forget, that on Classic nobody buy armor masteries, coz simply noone have free SP for that. Maybe thats why they choose hvy for more pdef

​They dont buy it cos it gives such a shity bonus that its waste of sp and its better to spend sp on more useful skills and get hvy set. Why dont we make light armor mastery more attractive pick then?

[datplays]

Ofc dont forget, that on Classic nobody buy armor masteries, coz simply noone have free SP for that. Maybe thats why they choose hvy for more pdef

​They dont buy it cos it gives such a shity bonus that its waste of sp and its better to spend sp on more useful skills and get hvy set. Why dont we make light armor mastery more attractive pick then?

​Well u re right, but it affect to all armor mastery, practically all class lack SP so its way to earn some SP with no buy armor mastery (light, robe, hvy)

[Rizos]

K i managed to find it

Here is how evasion worked on c5. I didnt test it here but i feel like it works different way here. Interesting part is "Chance to hit"
http://l2p.lacrafter.ru/nonskillattacks.html

[Cyane]

@datplays

Treasure Hunter lvl 75 with all Light masteries learned (TEST-SERVER done by me)

P.def comparison between B Light and heavy armors of the same type:

BW light: 732(699 without set bonus)        vs    BW heavy: 715
Doom light: 699       vs   Doom heavy: 745
Avadon light: 665    vs    Avadon heavy: 674
Zubei light: 633        vs    Zubei heavy: 709 (674 without set bonus)

In all cases (except blue wolf light with the set bonus effect of +5.26% P.Def) p.def of heavy armor sets without Heavy armor Masteries is superior to the p.def of light armor sets with all Light armor passives learned at 75.

[Rizos]

hmm interesting, any source info? How come bw hvy has lower p def than doom if its same grade?

[Cyane]

Source is our Test server: http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/9381-how-to-access-test-server/

Shot00017.bmp

Shot00018.bmp

[Rizos]

ok thx. still dunno why more p def in doom ;o

P.S. Take buffs with greater shield and earth song and ull see the difference, BIG advantage for hvy armor... Can u test it and put screen?