Dagger

[Arcanum 312]

I cant say tooo much about daggers at this server cauz i just changed 2 or 3 Weeks ago to dagger (TH).

But lemme try to join this conversation!

1. i can try to make some tests with SWS/TH

​i can help testing with my BD, they get pretty much the same passives for shield up until lv28: https://l2wiki.com/classic/Shield_Mastery_-_Palus_Knight

lv 28: Increases Shield Defense by 40% and Defense Rate by 70%.

thing is, without the aegis passive skill, people shouldn't be able to block from behind at all.

if they do, then it means that the block chance is not based on positioning like it should, but it's based on chance alone.

and since CON increases shield block chance as well, it's even worse.

[Capone 130]

Daggers have nothing wrong here, everything works almost corectly.  I main TH from C2, in every client daggers works different, diff setup, a bit diff skills and diff land rate chances. The problem on this client is the unbalances between some chars that daggers cant cope with all that CC. For example the high land rate of stun attacks, root, etc and the 100% success rate of horror from a DA. The role playing of a dagger is the same as an assassin from other games. To assassinate someone in a mass fight and stay alive then is so hard and needs skill to success it. Ofc the assassin role doesn't mean that you can fight 1v1 the heavy chars, your target is always the most valuable targets like (healers, mages, archers). The most of u if u played before in interlude servers u will remember hitting even the heavy chars with 2-3 blows and kill them easily, especially with a back blow dagger killing a SK with 2 backstabs. Forget about this here, its classic. I agree with that the most here said about the other DD chars hitting 2 much dmg from distance and that will be fixed in the next patch with the cap of the dyes mostly, but imo some chars should be the priority of being checked first like DA, SK, Tyrants.

[Rizos 1487]

Whats wrong with da tyrant amd sk?

[Stiba007 225]

Whats wrong with da tyrant amd sk?

Nothing, just so fcking strong 1v1, people think than they r broken.

[Capone 130]

Whats wrong with da tyrant amd sk?

​Nothing wrong. Just DA has 100% land rate with horror so u are always with fear when u go close to face him, SK can deal you 5k dmg without even touch you (DMG from cubics and poisons), and about tyrant nothing much just the no affect from the -DEX on dyes, hitting tons of dmg, undying with tons of HP, running as fck with the no affect again from -DEX, range dmg, stun. Like Stiba said he is so fckin strong. OP imo.

[Rizos 1487]

Agree they are very strong especially 1v1 but:

-Gladi>tyrant so dunno why hate for orcs but no glads. Racist?

- da fear has 50%chance now after yesterday fix. He still gonna fearlock u but ull have chance to bsoe/hide/run when u resist these 50% fears .  Landrate is officiallike so i wouldnt search for problem in it.

-SK works correct imo, except hex activation delay bug. Its very strong but when you compare it to DA, then it looks like balanced.

Tansk have to be strong or nobode would play them imo. 

[Capone 130]

Agree they are very strong especially 1v1 but:

-Gladi>tyrant so dunno why hate for orcs but no glads. Racist?

- da fear has 50%chance now after yesterday gix. He still gonna fearlock u but ull have chance to bsoe/hide/run when u resist these 50% fears .  Landrate is officiallike so i wouldnt search for problem in it.

-SK works correct imo, except hex activation delay bug. Its very strong but when you compare it to DA, then it looks like balanced.

Tansk have to be strong or nobode would play them imo. 

​Racism has not to do in game.  Glads are not stronger than Tyrs for sure. About DA's horror i don't know if fixed now maybe you are right on that cause i didn't checked it. You are correctly about the tanks have to be strong but they must be strong on their defensive stats and not on the offensive also. That makes them OP like SK dmg atm and imagine the dmg of a DA when the beast ss comes on 2.0.

[Rizos 1487]

SK used to be ofensive but paper tank. Classic dye system made that class a bit broken. About gladi, he has better UE than dagger, tyrant diesnt, gladi has ranged stun, tyrant doesnt, goadi has more speed, more cp+hp pool(not 100%sure) gladi has 80% resist vs most of debufs wirh good reuse time and 1 min duration, tyrant doesnt (need to go for 30% hp for such skull which sux) so you can debuflock tyrant and cant do same to gladi. Gladi has 'hex' tyrant dorsnt. Gladi has more power on fast reuse skills(tss) has 2 stuns. Gladi has even higher p atk, hvy armor mastery. What thing is better on tyrant? Faster reuse aoe for pve, 5 min reuse burst skill and totem to have more p def and m def than gladi, but has to have 170 speed on it and cant catch any1? Dunno why u think tyrant is better.

[Pepon 90]

Agree they are very strong especially 1v1 but:

-Gladi>tyrant so dunno why hate for orcs but no glads. Racist?

- da fear has 50%chance now after yesterday gix. He still gonna fearlock u but ull have chance to bsoe/hide/run when u resist these 50% fears .  Landrate is officiallike so i wouldnt search for problem in it.

-SK works correct imo, except hex activation delay bug. Its very strong but when you compare it to DA, then it looks like balanced.

Tansk have to be strong or nobode would play them imo. 

​Racism has not to do in game.  Glads are not stronger than Tyrs for sure. About DA's horror i don't know if fixed now maybe you are right on that cause i didn't checked it. You are correctly about the tanks have to be strong but they must be strong on their defensive stats and not on the offensive also. That makes them OP like SK dmg atm and imagine the dmg of a DA when the beast ss comes on 2.0.

​lol dot lol. When i can get hit 2+ from most classes on my 5.5k hp without vit (cos i m a noob and dont wanna go +8/+12 con but thats another story), i dont believe that dot and cubic drain every 10 sec make a difference. 

[Arcanum 312]

SK used to be ofensive but paper tank. Classic dye system made that class a bit broken. 

SK actually was never a paper tank.

it's just that most people pretend to play it as traditional tank, when instead they should play it like a mage.

it was also a bit more stronger back in interlude, when they had arrest too. now u can't kite as much as back in those days, sadly.

 

as for tyrants - glads: yeah, tyrants are way better than gladi.

at running

[Rizos 1487]

what? gladi has more speed on dash and can use permanently, doesnt need to wait for reuse plus they can stun enemies from range, dont even need to "outspeed" enemies in that case.

[Pepon 90]

SK used to be ofensive but paper tank. Classic dye system made that class a bit broken. 

SK actually was never a paper tank.

it's just that most people pretend to play it as traditional tank, when instead they should play it like a mage.

it was also a bit more stronger back in interlude, when they had arrest too. now u can't kite as much as back in those days, sadly.

 

as for tyrants - glads: yeah, tyrants are way better than gladi.

at running

​lul gimme a gs ++ and +8 str and i ll show u traditional tank

PS jk jk

[realKingLeonidas 159]

Guys i wanna make a statement here....I didnt read all the posts just some of them and i understand that many here say that some classes are exceed the broken part in comparison with others,,,i play on Classic client only 40-50 days so i dont have a spherical observation on this only what i've seen so far....i used to say that Interlude is the chronicle of F1-a chronicle that the party with the best MA won the gvg etc just because all the others create a macro with active attack-assist and nothing more....BUT.....i renew my statement on that....Classic chronicle is the chronicle of F1 and im going to explain why i say that...
First of all, i never saw in any Chronicle from c2-c3 till GoD archers twoshot tanks...Never...even with real target +30 you cant get twoshotted by a kamael as a Tank in any chronicle before
Secondly, if someone is 5-6 levels higher than you- you cant land ANY debuff on him at all and he can land anything on you-> lock you -> die...on the other side if someone was 5-6 levels above you (lets say you 70 and the other 75) you would have a chance of winning if you were better player than him but here its impracticable....
Thirdly ,i saw many guys here act like Pro players,like old school guys that fear nothing...let me tell you something you already know....You are here 1 year+ playing and some guys dont even play here 2 months....You kill them ofcourse because its classic and you got the levels to achieve immunity + success rate of your skills and when you achieve what you achieve you act like a 15yo kid that just won a lollipop....Guys if you wanna say you are pros you should act like pros and not like 15 yo kids ...
You can start flame me its ok but i saw some guys there think they know to play l2 or they know to handle theyre characters but 14 years of gaming i never saw them in any server do anything...

[ProGressive 740]

Daggers have nothing wrong here, everything works almost corectly.  I main TH from C2, in every client daggers works different, diff setup, a bit diff skills and diff land rate chances. The problem on this client is the unbalances between some chars that daggers cant cope with all that CC. For example the high land rate of stun attacks, root, etc and the 100% success rate of horror from a DA. The role playing of a dagger is the same as an assassin from other games. To assassinate someone in a mass fight and stay alive then is so hard and needs skill to success it. Ofc the assassin role doesn't mean that you can fight 1v1 the heavy chars, your target is always the most valuable targets like (healers, mages, archers). The most of u if u played before in interlude servers u will remember hitting even the heavy chars with 2-3 blows and kill them easily, especially with a back blow dagger killing a SK with 2 backstabs. Forget about this here, its classic. I agree with that the most here said about the other DD chars hitting 2 much dmg from distance and that will be fixed in the next patch with the cap of the dyes mostly, but imo some chars should be the priority of being checked first like DA, SK, Tyrants.

​U totally are out of topic bro. We are speaking not about how to play dagger or how to move in fights. But we talk about SWS blocking skills from behind. Thats the main reason i guess why soil played with shield, because its bugged.

[Capone 130]

Daggers have nothing wrong here, everything works almost corectly.  I main TH from C2, in every client daggers works different, diff setup, a bit diff skills and diff land rate chances. The problem on this client is the unbalances between some chars that daggers cant cope with all that CC. For example the high land rate of stun attacks, root, etc and the 100% success rate of horror from a DA. The role playing of a dagger is the same as an assassin from other games. To assassinate someone in a mass fight and stay alive then is so hard and needs skill to success it. Ofc the assassin role doesn't mean that you can fight 1v1 the heavy chars, your target is always the most valuable targets like (healers, mages, archers). The most of u if u played before in interlude servers u will remember hitting even the heavy chars with 2-3 blows and kill them easily, especially with a back blow dagger killing a SK with 2 backstabs. Forget about this here, its classic. I agree with that the most here said about the other DD chars hitting 2 much dmg from distance and that will be fixed in the next patch with the cap of the dyes mostly, but imo some chars should be the priority of being checked first like DA, SK, Tyrants.

​U totally are out of topic bro. We are speaking not about how to play dagger or how to move in fights. But we talk about SWS blocking skills from behind. Thats the main reason i guess why soil played with shield, because its bugged.

​Good luck on the solution

[Arcanum 312]

well, gladi with mace+shield is still somewhat viable for pvp, if you really want that extra damage mitigation from archers( mostly from Fatal Counter :v ), or if you just want to stunlock people to death, or stun 2+ people at once in group pvp.

gonna be fun watching half parties getting stunned by gladis when they don't get focused, i should try as well sometimes

what? gladi has more speed on dash and can use permanently, doesnt need to wait for reuse plus they can stun enemies from range, dont even need to "outspeed" enemies in that case.

if it's about speed, nothing beats tyrants.

with gladi u need to recharge sonic force at least to 3 in order to use the 2nd lv of dash, and while moving u can only recharge up to 2 sonic forces from 0 with stones, so u need to stop in order to charge the 3rd.

those few seconds will entirely screw up your chances to catch up during a long run, while tyrant can keep running as much as usain bolt if not even more.

there's also tales of tyrants with bw heavy, ww2, zerk2 and song of wind actually breaking the wall of sound and making the server crash, althou i never experienced anything like that so far

​

[driver 247]

SK used to be ofensive but paper tank. Classic dye system made that class a bit broken. 

SK actually was never a paper tank.

it's just that most people pretend to play it as traditional tank, when instead they should play it like a mage.

it was also a bit more stronger back in interlude, when they had arrest too. now u can't kite as much as back in those days, sadly.

 

as for tyrants - glads: yeah, tyrants are way better than gladi.

at running

​bro, u remind me thelord and greenlightds, arent u one of them?

i think gladi/destr/dagger must die from tyr, at least on this update. ofc depends on the area.

 

P.S. talking about the fact that TH are really weak in this update, on 2.0 since 76 lvl they are imba. time will fly and they will forget about the punishment they got in this update

[Rizos 1487]

No way glad loose to tyrant. Glad must be rky bad. Lets be real glad lands almost every stun on tyrant while resisting every stun from tyrant. Evades 40% of tyrant skills. How can tyrant win? Did you ever see good gladi? How did u come to duch conclusion? . I have tyrant here aswell. Ofc i can win gladi but i see how bad play these gladis who i kill so no coment. Tyrant vs destro. Its 50/50 depends if u kite destro selfbufs

[driver 247]

No way glad loose to tyrant. Glad must be rky bad. Lets be real glad lands almost every stun on tyrant while resisting every stun from tyrant. Evades 40% of tyrant skills. How can tyrant win? Did you ever see good gladi? How did u come to duch conclusion?

​well bro, i will be stupid if i rush on gladi after he uses lionheart and skillevasion. 

thelord thought he can kil 70 lvl tyr easy and was laughing when i wrote till pvp started what i will to to him and what he will try to do, it was as i said.

didnt have chance to fight with a lot of gladi, but killed a couple i think they were same lvl.

[Rizos 1487]

90% glads ate handless on this server, dagger shouldnt have chance vs warrior inles warior is handles (on 1.5). On 2.0 might be different story, esprcialy on th

[Arcanum 312]

90% glads ate handless on this server, dagger shouldnt have chance vs warrior inles warior is handles (on 1.5). On 2.0 might be different story, esprcialy on th

more like 90% of glads can't be bothered to recharge sonic focus during mid-fight, wich is the biggest mistake possible.

there's also people that still use DSS before TSS because "hurr durr it haz faster cooldown!!!1!1!" so...yeah

 

as for daggers: ​in 2.0 to be really effective u need to get to triclass first, and then hit 77.

after that, you need to get clear movements, and then you can reset the cooldown of hide and shadow step.

that way u can become pretty much untargettable for a short amount of time, with better chances to cancel enemy skills casting too.

i still think that giving them stun on shadow step would be still a somewhat viable solution to their lack of ccs anyway, since there's no bluff skill after 76. not sure if they'll add it on live server in KR thou.

[ProGressive 740]

90% glads ate handless on this server, dagger shouldnt have chance vs warrior inles warior is handles (on 1.5). On 2.0 might be different story, esprcialy on th

more like 90% of glads can't be bothered to recharge sonic focus during mid-fight, wich is the biggest mistake possible.

there's also people that still use DSS before TSS because "hurr durr it haz faster cooldown!!!1!1!" so...yeah

 

as for daggers: ​in 2.0 to be really effective u need to get to triclass first, and then hit 77.

after that, you need to get clear movements, and then you can reset the cooldown of hide and shadow step.

that way u can become pretty much untargettable for a short amount of time, with better chances to cancel enemy skills casting too.

i still think that giving them stun on shadow step would be still a somewhat viable solution to their lack of ccs anyway, since there's no bluff skill after 76. not sure if they'll add it on live server in KR thou.

​Why u need bluff skill when 2.5 shadow step stuns target ?  

[Rizos 1487]

I think this shadowstep gonna land for 1-2sec like on god, so dont overestimate it. I might be wrong tho

[Arcanum 312]

tested block chance today for about 1-200 times each with normal attacks, on characters without any shield passive, and on sws/bd.

results:

[char with no passive]

-block from front: yes

-block from sides: no

-block from behind: no

[sws/bd - passive lv28]

-block from front: yes

-block from sides: no

-block from behind: no

 

therefore, the only classes that can block from all directions still remain shilen knights and temple knights due to the passive skill aegis( wich i have NOT tested :v ).

if someone else wants to give it a try and see if it works properly, feel free to do so.

normal block works as intended, i guess.

 

[edit] is the current land-rate of blows boosted in this server compared to offi?

i'm asking because after watching some funny stuff today, if it gets nerfed fixed in 2.0, good luck at landing anything in pvp if not 100% behind the target with daggers

[Rizos 1487]

Yes deadly blow has around 2x higher land chance than on offi. Backstab also should have like 80% but has more. Also test deadly blow from front into char with shield, i think ull find out smth strange

Wanna see funny dagger stuff? https://youtu.be/WsY_feJIZLc

 :D