Organizing Giran Harbor into smaller bounded trading zones

[Thisias 0]

Please consider dividing Giran Harbor into selling / nonselling zones in pattern like I've drafted on attached file (or similar way) which would help people naturally create something like departments in the store. I believe it would be easier either for buyers or sellers to have bounded zones in which people can concentrate with particular types of goods.

[kkthx 245]

more running, yah, very helpfull...

they wont do this. u know why? Bcoz.

[Kaaru 7]

i was offered somethink like this, month ago?

[FryderykChopin 853]

9 hours ago, Thisias said:

Please consider dividing Giran Harbor into selling / nonselling zones in pattern like I've drafted on attached file (or similar way) which would help people naturally create something like departments in the store. I believe it would be easier either for buyers or sellers to have bounded zones in which people can concentrate with particular types of goods.

I appreciate the effort into making the Giran harbor less chaotic, but the truth is that trading zones in Giran Harbor aren't problem - Giran Harbor itself is a problem.

It's lagging as hell because of fishers, so even if you have SSD it still sometimes takes almost two minutes to load all the shops, so you're just standing there like a baboon to wait until all shops for what you're looking for so you can compare prices, you have to TP back to buy soul ore/spirit ore etc to craft soulshots because there's no grocery store, if you're a dwarf and want to quickly crystalize something and you don't want to search for 10 minutes for some D trash (because if you "/findprivatestore D" it throws a million shops) of course you need to go back because there's no weapon/armor shop either, same if you buy a rune and want to add it to weapon because obviously there's no blacksmith, and when 2.5 eventually hits the server at some point and you'll want to add augment, you'll have to go nowhere else but to Giran, becase  that's the place that was always meant to be a bussiness center... But most importantly Giran Harbor trading zone is custom and that's a major issue on Classic server. The ultimate solution is bringing the trading area back to Giran and managing trading areas there.

[Arslan259 9]

2 hours ago, FryderykChopin said:

I appreciate the effort into making the Giran harbor less chaotic, but the truth is that trading zones in Giran Harbor aren't problem - Giran Harbor itself is a problem.

It's lagging as hell because of fishers, so even if you have SSD it still sometimes takes almost two minutes to load all the shops, so you're just standing there like a baboon to wait until all shops for what you're looking for so you can compare prices, you have to TP back to buy soul ore/spirit ore etc to craft soulshots because there's no grocery store, if you're a dwarf and want to quickly crystalize something and you don't want to search for 10 minutes for some D trash (because if you "/findprivatestore D" it throws a million shops) of course you need to go back because there's no weapon/armor shop either, same if you buy a rune and want to add it to weapon because obviously there's no blacksmith, and when 2.5 eventually hits the server at some point and you'll want to add augment, you'll have to go nowhere else but to Giran, becase  that's the place that was always meant to be a bussiness center... But most importantly Giran Harbor trading zone is custom and that's a major issue on Classic server. The ultimate solution is bringing the trading area back to Giran and managing trading areas there.

Then you have same problems in Giran... there people also go fishing... they fishing in Giran + buying shop + selling and you have laggs in Giran

[FryderykChopin 853]

1 hour ago, Arslan259 said:

Then you have same problems in Giran... there people also go fishing... they fishing in Giran + buying shop + selling and you have laggs in Giran

Fishing isn't a problem as long as it's not in your rendering range... Check Aden, there's a lot of fishers but no lag when you port, because your PC doesn't render them until you get close/on your view. The fishing areas in Giran are far from the trading zone and/or behind wall so it's a non-issue. In each case when some bot fisher in Giran annoys you, you can always solve it like this:

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by FryderykChopin

[Thisias 0]

7 hours ago, FryderykChopin said:

I appreciate the effort into making the Giran harbor less chaotic, but the truth is that trading zones in Giran Harbor aren't problem - Giran Harbor itself is a problem.

It's lagging as hell because of fishers, so even if you have SSD it still sometimes takes almost two minutes to load all the shops, so you're just standing there like a baboon to wait until all shops for what you're looking for so you can compare prices, you have to TP back to buy soul ore/spirit ore etc to craft soulshots because there's no grocery store, if you're a dwarf and want to quickly crystalize something and you don't want to search for 10 minutes for some D trash (because if you "/findprivatestore D" it throws a million shops) of course you need to go back because there's no weapon/armor shop either, same if you buy a rune and want to add it to weapon because obviously there's no blacksmith, and when 2.5 eventually hits the server at some point and you'll want to add augment, you'll have to go nowhere else but to Giran, becase  that's the place that was always meant to be a bussiness center... But most importantly Giran Harbor trading zone is custom and that's a major issue on Classic server. The ultimate solution is bringing the trading area back to Giran and managing trading areas there.

Whatever, basically i don't care if trading zone or fishing is in Giran or in Giran Harobr. My point is different - you come into shop in real life, what is better: everything on one heap  or goods sorted into departments? It doesn't matter where the trading area is, it's important to help players to organize themselves into departments by lining smaller bounded trading zones, either in Giran or Giran Harbor or wherever else ;-)

[Asterra 13]

I vote for Giran trade zone. 
It's good for trading because of its "natural" segmented trade zones -  Items at central square, resources near Taurin/Grocery shop area.

Besides its good to see cities alive. GH is just a fenced paddock. 
But, i dont know if its good to make free teleport to/from Giran city, like it is in GH now.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Asterra

[Thisias 0]

9 minutes ago, Asterra said:

I vote for Giran trade zone. 
It's good for trading because of its "natural" segmented trade zones -  Items at central square, resources near Taurin/Grocery shop area.

Besides its good to see cities alive. GH is just a fenced paddock. 
But, i dont know if its good to make free teleport to/from Giran city, like it is in GH now.

This topic isn't about moving trade center from Giran Harbor to Giran or someplace else. Personally I'm fine with having trade center in Giran Harbor. My point is just to divide trade center into smaller zones, to help people organize their shop into departments. Besides I don't think it's useful to tell players where should be which goods traded. That's up to them how they fulfill particular "departments". I see such tendencies even now, but without lined lanes is now Giran Harbor just one big mess...

[FinalFen 23]

On 18.11.2017 at 9:41 PM, Thisias said:

Please consider dividing Giran Harbor into selling / nonselling zones in pattern like I've drafted on attached file (or similar way) which would help people naturally create something like departments in the store. I believe it would be easier either for buyers or sellers to have bounded zones in which people can concentrate with particular types of goods.

Honestly this isn't that bad of an idea. Well I mean I wouldn't split it into different product categories because it would create great havoc and force players to study/memorize which zone is reserved for what kind of products but what I would l love to see, is splitting trading zone in 3 areas:

1st zone - only sell offers (/vendor)

2nd zone - only buy offers (/buy)

3nd zone - only private manufacture (/dontrememberthisone :f)

It would be very easy to memorioze, self explanatory and intuitive. Not sure how much effort would GM's have to put to make such a solution/modification but to a naive guy like me it doesn't look like something too insane to implement.

[Valeera 38]

every of those squares locations would have to be specified to be allowed to be a zone where shop on offline mode is allowed, and would be hard for players to know where is where and what is what, best solution would really just make the free offline shop everywhere in all towns and just let users pick where they want to set their shop, who likes how it is stays where it is, others can move shops to towns.

from my point of view, it would decrease a bit the lags for the users with lag trouble in GH(i personally dont), and it would help the towns gaining some more "life".

[blowmeaway 3]

this again... giran has to be the main trade zone.. Even gludin would be better... GH its weird..

It would be easier if theres some poll to end with this.

[FryderykChopin 853]

On 19. 11. 2017 at 2:01 PM, Thisias said:

Whatever, basically i don't care if trading zone or fishing is in Giran or in Giran Harobr. My point is different - you come into shop in real life, what is better: everything on one heap  or goods sorted into departments? It doesn't matter where the trading area is, it's important to help players to organize themselves into departments by lining smaller bounded trading zones, either in Giran or Giran Harbor or wherever else ;-)

Well, I don't know... As a very active trader I have my doubts about it - making a zones is unlikely to make the traders to get too organized. If I were to use the the original draft, my experience tells me it would've ended up being filled closely to like this:

Because it doesn't really matter what you sell, you want to be the first thing that people see when they port here... Exception of course is equip and other high single prices goods, but other than that most anything that comes to your mind are short-hold goods which you don't want people to look for for too long.

Other argument could be that forcing sellers into some custom groupings is killing an important part of this game which is selling skills. Often you can buy for cheaper or sell for more than others simply because you have a good spot (and good shop title). When someone ports to GH to buy few shots and needs to buy few shots, and realize they're short some adenas, they aren't going to search through the entire place so they can get extra 2k adena for their Animal Skins.

NCsoft successfuly managed to kill the bussiness feature in the G.o.D.+ chronicles when they implemented Auction House, where you can sell anything you want and order the shops by price, which basically degrades the trading system into overpissing people by 1 adena several times a day. I think that's a cancer and I don't really want to get close to it.

So basically even though what you're suggesting is 100% correct from the point of the customer, it ain't so much from the point of us traders. We deserve some rights as well, yo 

One thing I could agree on that once we have trading zone in Giran, is to set the private manufacturers on the line next to the Monument of Heroes. The competition alongside the crafters isn't so fierce so it can work well in terms of making the life easer for general populace without really 'screwing' someone over 

[FinalFen 23]

@FryderykChopin and what do you think about:

 

On 20.11.2017 at 11:15 AM, FinalFen said:

...what I would l love to see, is splitting trading zone in 3 areas:

1st zone - only sell offers (/vendor)

2nd zone - only buy offers (/buy)

3nd zone - only private manufacture (/dontrememberthisone :f)

It would be very easy to memorioze, self explanatory and intuitive. Not sure how much effort would GM's have to put to make such a solution/modification but to a naive guy like me it doesn't look like something too insane to implement.

 

[FryderykChopin 853]

@FinalFen similarly, it's something that would make life easier for customers, but somewhat undermines the bussiness spirit - for example right now you can increase your profits by simply sitting on a busy place which is occupied by predominantly opposite traders - e.g. if you want to set a buy shop, you sit around sellers and vice versa. Forcing people to go make shops on certain places also reduce the distances beween them and their competitors, making the price itself the only relevant factor. Of course it still depends on the size of the area but naturally everyone will want to be close to the teleport...

[FinalFen 23]

You dissapointed me my young padawan, but the force is still strong in you

[Thisias 0]

On 20. 11. 2017 at 6:23 PM, FryderykChopin said:

Well, I don't know... As a very active trader I have my doubts about it - making a zones is unlikely to make the traders to get too organized. If I were to use the the original draft, my experience tells me it would've ended up being filled closely to like this:

Because it doesn't really matter what you sell, you want to be the first thing that people see when they port here... Exception of course is equip and other high single prices goods, but other than that most anything that comes to your mind are short-hold goods which you don't want people to look for for too long.

Other argument could be that forcing sellers into some custom groupings is killing an important part of this game which is selling skills. Often you can buy for cheaper or sell for more than others simply because you have a good spot (and good shop title). When someone ports to GH to buy few shots and needs to buy few shots, and realize they're short some adenas, they aren't going to search through the entire place so they can get extra 2k adena for their Animal Skins.

NCsoft successfuly managed to kill the bussiness feature in the G.o.D.+ chronicles when they implemented Auction House, where you can sell anything you want and order the shops by price, which basically degrades the trading system into overpissing people by 1 adena several times a day. I think that's a cancer and I don't really want to get close to it.

So basically even though what you're suggesting is 100% correct from the point of the customer, it ain't so much from the point of us traders. We deserve some rights as well, yo 

One thing I could agree on that once we have trading zone in Giran, is to set the private manufacturers on the line next to the Monument of Heroes. The competition alongside the crafters isn't so fierce so it can work well in terms of making the life easer for general populace without really 'screwing' someone over 

Well....

at first place, I don't want to DIRECTIVELY FORCE anyone to sell or buy any particular goods here or there. My idea is line up this grid and let people to work with that on their own (seeing your drawing into mine, I would really, REALLY love to see what would happen in real :-D ). Of course there are people with similar point of view like you, as well as there are also people with similar point of view like Final Fen has (it's opposite extreme). I'm on the half way between you both - on one hand i would like to encourage better organisation of trading, on the other hand, it cannot be forced, it must go naturally from players (and i see this tendencies even now within that one heap) and this measure should just help these players. On the other - other hand, i think you're right with your "business spirit theory" therefore i don't call for strict enforcing where to buy / sell which goods (honestly i don't believe it's even possible) - just line the grid and see what players will make with it. Moreover what I see as another advantage of this proposal is enlarging amount of exclusive border zones where banner can be seen easily seen.