What is the best skill rotation?

[Sett 79]

Err...not.

But i did pique your interest, didn't I? If your adrenaline level rose as you read the title you're in the right place. While browsing around i once again stumbled across the term "skill rotation". Am I the only one who absolutely hates that term?

Why? Obvously because i don't play WoW, for the most part. But also/therefore because i usually only see it in WoW vs. Lineage discussions (yes, i Googled just that, it's a dead slow Friday at work and it's f'ing 40°C outside). So there you have people arguing that Lineage is "just stand and press F1, while in WoW you have to learn spell rotations". What the ....? How is pushing three buttons in order any more difficult than pressing one? Is this really what people think PvP is about? Just how bad is the average person at pvp?

Now, i have to admit, that the positioning and skill selection seems much more pronounced and dynamic in WoW than in Lineage (if you consider jumping around like utter moron a dynamic positioning), but somehow people still completely ignore that, and argue with skill usage instead. What does that tell you?

Also: is it just me or does every Blizzard game past W3:Frozen Throne look and feel exactly the same? And Valve's Dota as well. What gives?

[/rant]

 

[Jamein 12]

I've played both, so I'll thrown down my insight here.

Rotations are a thing of the modern day MMO's they are perfected to a point where you maximise DPS, you cannot compare WoW/L2 in that respect because lineage 2 does not have that kind of skill system, a lot of older MMO's never did. L2 has a few debuffs but that's about it. in WoW/other mmo's a lot of skills have secondary effects/passive traits with them, so you want to make sure you use all the skills, but in the most optimal fashion, and thus skill rotations are born. Although a lot of 'rotations' are actually a priority system, (is this debuff on, is this buff on? is this dot on? etc)

Lineage 2 does not use a system like this, the odd spell like vortex's had a debuff element, but nothing major so again, you cannot compare L2 to WoW.

The other reason you can't compare, is the PVE is absolutely different, WoW's PVE is challenging, Lineage 2 is NOT a raiding PVE game, the raids are easy as shit and just require numbers/gear, not skill. That's the simple matter of it. Bosses aren't complicated, the mechanics are simple, it's mainly a DPS smash.

PVP on the other hand, rotations aren't so strict, but classes still have a multitude of skills to use more than in L2.

To put it simply, WoW's characters and PVE are far more indepth/complex than lineage 2, there is no denying that.

L2 however was never designed for PVE, it's a grind game that focus' on political aspects of the game and clan wars/sieges and forming alliances and controlling the map (locking down AL/ToI etc). WoW is all about instanced BG's that in no way shape the world around you and PVE raids.

Lineage 2 requires next to no real 'skill' in terms of character play. The only skill in the game are the main targetters in the party picking the best targets, and those micro managing the zerg into the correct positions for mass PVP, other than that it's a very simple game and the classes aren't complex like in WoW.

However being a 'top' clan actually means something in L2, you shape the world, you can lock down areas, you can control castles and have an impact on the server.

 

tl;dr  you can't compare the two games so don't bother, classes in L2 are simple compared to WoW but the game isn't made for PVE raids. Plus anyone saying MMO's require real 'skills' are stupid anyway.

 

As for DoTA 2. Best game ever.

[fodemhouse 7]

I heard this term also in FFXIV, but its more about PVE games... I feel its just so fking stupid because the game forces u to use the skills on some order.... No good pvper will EVER think about skill rotation BS... 

I am glad we dont have this kind of crap on lineage... well maybe that seed and vortex stuff for mages... but Thats the only one, and we dont have it on classic anyway... 

[Sett 79]

...the game forces u to use the skills on some order.... No good pvper will EVER think about skill rotation BS... 

​That is exactly my point.

Now, my pvp is not exactly the best in the world, mainly because my APM sucks balls, but i know, at least how to do stuff right, if i can execute it right. And it is certainly nothing static, whether one key or three.

The epitome of "skill rotation" fail for me is Nova in HotS. You have three active skill, but really, you just spam them allways in the same order, with the exception of using decoy first, as actual decoy or saving it for body block. And that's it. You do your rotation, you run away and wait for cooldown to start over, whether you managed to get the kill or not. Don't get me worng, it is fun, but it's no different to me to just having one instagib button.

As for WoW...IDK. I only played it for few hours, so i can't judge, but it didn't appeal to me at all. Too frenetic PvP (observed), too ad-hoc buffs (observed), too cartoonish graphics (nothing wrong with cartoons, but WoW is just overwhelmingly coloring book-ish after few hours). But the main reason...

You know, i play Lineage for the people. I had almost five years of a break when the people from my old clan left. I keep coming back, at times, but without them, the game alone sucks. However, i am also a shy person. i avoid grouping with people i don't know, ingame and outside, or even talking to them if i can avoid it. But it gets boring fast. Hence, i play L2 for the people. But in WoW, after playing for hours the game still feels like i don't need anybody. Like i could just quest my ass up to lvl 80, solo, with zero effort. And then i would ... do what? There is no need to group up, not even to protect yourself from PKs.

And then there is killing monsters. I ended up with like 10 skills, that i could freely choose from to throw at something. Variability is good. Except at the end of the day, they made zero difference. Similar damage, similar mana cost, various side effects that don't really translate to anything. At least in Lineage you have a skill that is clearly "default", a base you can use to compare your other skills to.

As for DotA, it is the only other game that i keep playing on and off for the last ten years. I didn't get much sleep this week (Seattle is -9 hours )

[Fenrir 69]

No good pvper will EVER think about skill rotation BS... 

it's actually the contrary of that statement, and it applies in every mmorpg that has multiple skills.

in L2, ​if you play as a glad or tyrant, you WILL have to setup skills rotations with focus charges and toggles, otherwise if you don't plan ahead and learn how/when to use them, you're going to get facerolled by any other class that knows how to pvp in the proper way.

and that's pretty much the main difference between people that actually know how to play, and scrubs that just pretend to be good.

[Sett 79]

Wrong. Kind of. You use your skills in an order that best suits the current situation, which might be the same in ideal conditions. Ideal conditions don't exist. For one thing, you'll get stunned or interrupted in most pvp situations. putting your cooldowns out of the usual synchronisation. If you are used to rigid routine, you are dead. If you are thinking on the fly, you might just come up with the right response to the situation.

It's just a mindset difference for the most part, but it is an important one.

[Fenrir 69]

Wrong. Kind of. You use your skills in an order that best suits the current situation, which might be the same in ideal conditions. Ideal conditions don't exist. For one thing, you'll get stunned or interrupted in most pvp situations. putting your cooldowns out of the usual synchronisation. If you are used to rigid routine, you are dead. If you are thinking on the fly, you might just come up with the right response to the situation.

It's just a mindset difference for the most part, but it is an important one.

​yes and no. skill rotations are one thing, tactics are another.

 

it all depends on the class anyway. for example: a destroyer will basicly have a stun, another damage skill and autoattacks in-between.

that pretty much can be resumed in 3 keybinds to be pressed every few seconds. there's nothing "hard" to deal with rotations-wise. u just have 3 basic things to do and that's it.

however, the difference with the other DD classes stays within the self buffs, that must be used pre-battle and/or during battle depending on the hp level. a destroyer that know how/when to use their buffs will already be a step ahead compared to those who will just pre-buff and/or spam their skills blindly without thinking.

that's also why people that know how to properly use their rotations can also come up with different tactics depending on the situation and the gear available, while skill-spammers can't.

 

as for interruptions: warrior classes have Lionheart along with high CON by default, so it's unlikely you'll get perma stunned or rooted( especially with Lionheart lv3, since you'll get 80% resistance by default  ), unless you're very unlucky.

of course, for other classes is different, but there's always buffs like Resist Shock that may help randomly.

fact is that the basic rotations will always be the same for every class, and there will always be a meta for every class in PvP.

the difference is only made by the player, that has to choose the most proper tactic to use depending on the situation.

[ve3k 44]

As for DoTA 2. Best game ever.

​Amen!

[fodemhouse 7]

On lineage u dont have global cooldowns so... 

U can use what best suits you on every situation and thats why lineage pvp is still on top...

Also u can get stuned, out of target, feared, agro etc...   

So no skill rotation for dumies... 

[Elrick 0]

I don't know how is WoW now but in my time, pre WoTLK, it wasn't all simple 1-2-3 rotations. You have to manage your cooldowns, aggro, positioning, mana/rage/energy and be ready to use situational skills on top of following a strategy for the encounter. You have 20+ skills to manage and every classes have something special to manage like rage, combo points, seals, stances, etc.

Some people like that, some people just want to grind mindlessly by pressing the same 1-2 buttons.

Having a more dynamic skill system doesn't preclude having all the features of open PvP of L2. In fact, I would expect a open pvp game to be more skill based than grind based, otherwise of course the people who grinded/botted/rmted the most will always win.

[Budge 10]

in L2 you dont need rotation if your mage, you just spam spam spam same shit