balance sugestions

[Zeperios 18]

3 hours ago, MoDoy said:

only ppl who could be against removal of CC are PvE ppl

Simplification, but kind of true. In pvp CC is more of a defensive buff, in pve it is offensive buff. CC proc in general is a very nice damage boost and gives some nice ability to have higher damage, but in PvE it is required for the areas that are created. However this could give some "balance" to the existing areas in that not having CC would make the areas much harder and require more group play.

 

i'm not a huge fan of removing CC because I like it in pve and felt awesome back in the day interlude (was 84 PP? so some balance there). But it cant be ignored that L2 pre-CC and L2-post CC are wildly different games almost. I think removing CC sort of reverts the game back in patches while still having existing characters and gear, while giving archer a crit pen buff keeps it the same while buffing an archetype.

 

Either way a solution around crits, melee classes, stigma, and caster (mainly necro) strength needs to be evaluated.

[MoDoy 1772]

21 minutes ago, Zeperios said:

Simplification, but kind of true. In pvp CC is more of a defensive buff, in pve it is offensive buff. CC proc in general is a very nice damage boost and gives some nice ability to have higher damage, but in PvE it is required for the areas that are created. However this could give some "balance" to the existing areas in that not having CC would make the areas much harder and require more group play.

 

i'm not a huge fan of removing CC because I like it in pve and felt awesome back in the day interlude (was 84 PP? so some balance there). But it cant be ignored that L2 pre-CC and L2-post CC are wildly different games almost. I think removing CC sort of reverts the game back in patches while still having existing characters and gear, while giving archer a crit pen buff keeps it the same while buffing an archetype.

 

Either way a solution around crits, melee classes, stigma, and caster (mainly necro) strength needs to be evaluated.

the idea in pve is, that instead of boosting everything else, you lower pretty much melee farming speed, so for example without CC, in GC you wont feel like sh1t if you go farm with your main mage party and no need to log your tyrant box party just to farm

same goes for other zones

CC was added in hellbound chronicle, so interlude PP didnt have it

also CC was working even worse in past chronicles in pvp, because back then you didnt have reflect damage from all source of dmg like now, so only time CC could proc is if some DD focused you and made enough dmg, on classic it procs after first skill because you reflect enough to proc it  

[Rizos 1487]

On 2/4/2022 at 1:52 PM, MoDoy said:

you realize by removing CC and CoP, even if some melee chars get extra DMG from it (only when its triggered), your targets lose the bonus for defense (which is always up)

also by removing CoP and CC - supports lose some overall defense from it, so ppl will hit them harder on average, but you wont be getting those lucky 1 shot crits (or at least fewer of them), which means good playstyle, keeping HPs/CPs filled will be promoted, instead of getting IK no matter what you do

so in general - ppl who profited from triggered CC will now profit on average dmg boost, ppl who profited from non-triggered CC will now profit on not getting ridiculous spike lucky damage

only ppl who could be against removal of CC are PvE ppl, who love to farm bosses with CC triggers (from epics it affects baium and zaken? but at least ppl wont be killing it with 1 destro party right?) or have melee chars (*cough, cough* tyrants *cough*),  which in my opinion (and pretty sure many others have also this opinion) should be nerfed anyway, as its way too strong in PvE compared to any other class

destro is new meta modoy. Novadyas even bd farm solo better than tyrant

but i like the CC/cop idea in general

Mages and archers would be nerfed tho by this change Q_Q

Edited February 5, 2022 by Rizos

[Creative1365 17]

You guys don't understand that's the all character have cons and pros .

Stop crying about tyrant /destroy about PvE yes they are PvE monsters because they are made to be PvE monsters , 

In pvp u have better characters to do it but they are sucks in PvE ...

Average character in PvE will be average in pvp it is how it works.

 

The cop cc is made BCS of the extra CRIT DMG stuffs as othels buffs epics if they will put out cc and cop the players without star war gear and epics will die on 0.3 hit .

Sorry but if someone can't kill supp or robe user as dagger with same gear a that's mean the dagger person is moron.

With the 2 x hides or 2 x ghost step tricks it is possible to put like one or 2 combos in a row .

[MoDoy 1772]

1 hour ago, Creative1365 said:

You guys don't understand that's the all character have cons and pros .

Stop crying about tyrant /destroy about PvE yes they are PvE monsters because they are made to be PvE monsters , 

In pvp u have better characters to do it but they are sucks in PvE ...

Average character in PvE will be average in pvp it is how it works.

 

The cop cc is made BCS of the extra CRIT DMG stuffs as othels buffs epics if they will put out cc and cop the players without star war gear and epics will die on 0.3 hit .

Sorry but if someone can't kill supp or robe user as dagger with same gear a that's mean the dagger person is moron.

With the 2 x hides or 2 x ghost step tricks it is possible to put like one or 2 combos in a row .

so first of all, tyrant is the biggest beast out of melee classes in pvp and pve, so there is nothing like you said about balance "its good in pve but sucks in pvp or it can be good in pvp but sucks in pve"

about second statement, have you played on dagger yourself here? coz if not, boiiii, those are some big statements  

[Zeperios 18]

3 hours ago, Creative1365 said:

You guys don't understand that's the all character have cons and pros .

Stop crying about tyrant /destroy about PvE yes they are PvE monsters because they are made to be PvE monsters , 

In pvp u have better characters to do it but they are sucks in PvE ...

Average character in PvE will be average in pvp it is how it works.

 

The cop cc is made BCS of the extra CRIT DMG stuffs as othels buffs epics if they will put out cc and cop the players without star war gear and epics will die on 0.3 hit .

Sorry but if someone can't kill supp or robe user as dagger with same gear a that's mean the dagger person is moron.

With the 2 x hides or 2 x ghost step tricks it is possible to put like one or 2 combos in a row .

Let me put this in a more understandable way since you don’t get it at all.

 

Runes broke the balance of the game (physical damage). Daggers and archers are supposed to have crit advantage over people and therefore bring more damage through crits. Every other physical damage class is way overtuned because of othell.

 

Continuing on Modoys counter to your point:

Archers suck pve and pvp

Tyrants god at both

Titan 81+ god PvE very useful pvp

Necros…… need I say more. Hint: give me a con about the class. I’lol die before you give me a real one

 

Daggers: pvp have some of lowest mobility now even though that is meant to be in their class

 

The whole discussion in this post is from people that understand the game and balance to a high level. We aren’t saying there aren’t pros and cons and that balance isn’t a challenge, but highlighting where the balance is DOMINATED by a few classes. Also none of what we are tossing around is even full ideas just something that would be interesting to test and see how the balance of the game reacts to it.

 

Ignore “Star Wars gear”. L2 has always catered to high gear and made you invincible if you are geared. That’s L2. Modoy pointed out how CoP and CC can help balance for non-GG gear people.

Last point about dagger is funny though. You are complaining to someone that has played dagger on this server probably in top 5 and I’ve been on server 2 years and know that. You also listed every dagger skill to be used to kill someone when there are salvs and castle blessing scrolls. So you brought a whole char to remove 1 buff and cause a rez. #effective. You can do that every few mins though so just ask your CP to live until then. 

[Rizos 1487]

4 hours ago, Creative1365 said:

You guys don't understand that's the all character have cons and pros .

Stop crying about tyrant /destroy about PvE yes they are PvE monsters because they are made to be PvE monsters , 

In pvp u have better characters to do it but they are sucks in PvE ...

Average character in PvE will be average in pvp it is how it works.

 

The cop cc is made BCS of the extra CRIT DMG stuffs as othels buffs epics if they will put out cc and cop the players without star war gear and epics will die on 0.3 hit .

Sorry but if someone can't kill supp or robe user as dagger with same gear a that's mean the dagger person is moron.

With the 2 x hides or 2 x ghost step tricks it is possible to put like one or 2 combos in a row .

i think you dont understand how daggers/cc/cop works. Daggers would be nerfed by this change cos they have how u say "50% crit pen" and ignore half of cc and cop effect, so in the end they would hit 30% stronger on every stab but lose 100% crit dmg boost from cc

[Creative1365 17]

With cc removal the low geared randoms will cry even more about how that server sucks ,they will be not able to make 20k exp per day on daily , they will not Invest time to farm better Eq because it isn't possible with another's randoms in pt .

I tried to play with randoms and you can't do it ... 

Even when I came to server there were stupid actions on RBS toi loa where ppl who told us they have 80 -76+ lvl can't understand the games and how paralisys /silence etc work .

Is only chaos all what you get in that time when you are playing with randoms is losing exp and maybe Eq .

Cc help a lot for low geared ppl but ..after i put some fists+11 on Tyr i started farm GC alone .

Than destroy get rush so i lvling m destro and with blunt +10 i can hit for 20-30k only with stigma and cc .

These buffs are not bad but it give too big advantage for stacked characters .instead of %%increases it should give CRIT pene or same amount of CRIT DMG .

 

Daggers on that server are hitting hard but yes without stacked gear u would be able to do less than 1 k DMG on combo . So maybe without these buffs will help for low Eq daggers but than stacked will hit a on one stab .

 

[Rizos 1487]

15 hours ago, Creative1365 said:

With cc removal the low geared randoms will cry even more about how that server sucks ,they will be not able to make 20k exp per day on daily , they will not Invest time to farm better Eq because it isn't possible with another's randoms in pt .

I tried to play with randoms and you can't do it ... 

Even when I came to server there were stupid actions on RBS toi loa where ppl who told us they have 80 -76+ lvl can't understand the games and how paralisys /silence etc work .

Is only chaos all what you get in that time when you are playing with randoms is losing exp and maybe Eq .

Cc help a lot for low geared ppl but ..after i put some fists+11 on Tyr i started farm GC alone .

Than destroy get rush so i lvling m destro and with blunt +10 i can hit for 20-30k only with stigma and cc .

These buffs are not bad but it give too big advantage for stacked characters .instead of %%increases it should give CRIT pene or same amount of CRIT DMG .

 

Daggers on that server are hitting hard but yes without stacked gear u would be able to do less than 1 k DMG on combo . So maybe without these buffs will help for low Eq daggers but than stacked will hit a on one stab .

 

I think its improvement for new ppl compared to old players cos new ppl dont have/dont have to exp pp80 plus old farmers dont have so much advantage over  randoms on RBs, although rb farm is totally destroyed by new sk buff

About daggers i explained above why its nerf

Edited February 10, 2022 by Rizos

[Creative1365 17]

Without the cc /cop buffs randoms will be not able to play GC /fi/new zone 

They are almost in 80% tools tupid for that ,better is to log every day for 15 min and get some %% from daily .

Instead of losing time on changes in buffs/skills admina should focus on a way how bring new players on server .

Here is since long time same.. 

Eu time is dead 

Asia prime is full farm mode till pvp fun between Korean and China 

And sometimes when epic spawn .

All another time all zones are free 

Since 4 pm CET even di is free .

New players are going out after fees hours of play ,they haven't chance to get RB ,no chance to exp in pt ,no chance to find anyone till daily RB .

Economy on market sucks .

 

 

So some nerfs buffs on characters are not needed now .