Suggestion about evasion Stat

[Narmontas 34]

OK people Maybe I should have written it in report category , but modifying it comes more with suggesting and not reporting stuff...
I don't know what l2 experience are we trying to get here , but while I've played on both Russian and EU  Classic Officials , Evasion seemed to work properly and Magic Evasion meant something as well.  In this version well... I don't know the main cause of this problem it need investigation and lots of time , but ...  

M.EVA  - Useless stat. It adds nothing and fighting mechanics are still from  Gracian chronicle. It is nonexistent. Why Should I bother myself having +WIT dyes to get my dagger or archer character less likely to be hit by a nuke attack?   Rogue class doesn't have Magic Mastery like other classes and M.Eva is stat based for them to counter mages It looks like in this server it is broken and mage have a huge advance.

Another point is Evasion it also seems to be broken. My Ultimate evasion never evaded any physical skills  even though it says that it does... And My character with  High evasion and all masteries get hited 5/7 hits from monster that is 20 lvl lower. I think something is really wrong in here. If you run  into a pack of monster  with light armor you never get out of there alive. So It's not a players choice to wear Heavy or Light armor for Dagger class , But It's a main factor for survival.  You get almost the same times hit by a monsters if you are wearing light or heavy set... So why the hell is this  light armor mastery? why the hell should daggers use +DEX stat and why should anyone war Sets that adds evasion if it makes no difference? 

The whole my l2 experience when I played never really saw Evasion so broken , seriously...  If Monster is 10 levels lower he will hit like 1/3 hits or 1/5 hits if you're light armor class with masteries. And 20 level monster will hit you like 1/5 hits  or 1/9 hit if you're with mastery . Of course More hits taken  also depends on weapon monster is using. The ones with blunt will less be likely to miss while archers , daggers will miss much more. 

Accuracy vs monsters is OK. The ones with light armor do really  evade my attacks often , because I'm using : Bow , dagger. Rest looks decent. 

So I suggest to recheck evasion stat how does it behave and  if errors are found , lastly try to fix it. Thx

[Cyane 230]

Physical skill evasion is working fine for me when ultimate evasion is on. But i agree that evasion against normal hits sucks even with UE.

This is an experiment from Innova about how evasion is working there: https://4gameforum.com/threads/593504/

I suggest to re-do this experiment here. The good new is that there is an easy way to test this:

Since every missed arrow doesn't consume ss, for every test:

-Use eminence with 1000 arrows and 5000 ssc (ssc consumption per arrow is 5 i think).

-Attack the target

-go get a drink or food

-The archer will stop attacking when is out of arrows.

-Come back and Count the number of ssc / 5 = missed shots out of 1000.

 

[Narmontas 34]

I could do experiment but what will it show?   It might show hit rate Okay... Evasion rate... But how to fix it even with the numbers after the test?  By just adding 10-20 evasion to dagger classes won't solve a thing... lolz

[Cyane 230]

I did the tests.

With no armor (Evasion = 71)  --> 15.3% evasion rate (13.2% in Innova)

With Mithril set and Evasion lv. 3 (Evasion = 89) --> 33.4% evasion rate (30,3% in Innova)

With Mithril set, Evasion lv. 3, Song of Water and UE lv.1 (Evasion 112) --> 69.5% evasion rate (72.7% in Innova).

Conclusion: Evasion is working very similar to Classic EU.

 

[Cyane 230]

 

[enf0rcer 16]

Tbh, that it is close to retail doesnt mean it isnt broken. I remember the old days of L2 where people could play as evasion tank. Its nearly impossible now. Even on perfect condition you are under 70% evasion rate. Thats terrible. Evasion should atleast be 10% higher.

[Cyane 230]

I agree with you enf0rcer. My point was to show that is a problem that "Classic" chronicle has, not a particular bug of this server. Sorry for my english. But the main reason why evasion is not so important now is because all classes do much higher damage through skills, not normal hits.

[Narmontas 34]

Cyane this is tested players vs players , but what about monsters? I mean try to take monsters  same lvl -5 lvls -10 and - 20 lvl. If  43 player  character with leather set gets hitted by  agressive kaboo orc warriors by rate of 5/10 hits is it normal?

[Cyane 230]

Tbh, that it is close to retail doesnt mean it isnt broken. I remember the old days of L2 where people could play as evasion tank. Its nearly impossible now. Even on perfect condition you are under 70% evasion rate. Thats terrible. Evasion should atleast be 10% higher.

​Isnt Evasion cap ~75% anyway? If that is the case any dagger with passives learned and buff, or while running, or with UE lv. 2 instead of lv.1 could reach that maximum evasion.

[Cyane 230]

Yes, against mobs it might be different. I wont test that too. Someone help me!

[gfbot 207]

Dex gets buffed in 2.0

[Rizos 1487]

Topic already discussed -> http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/10292-light-armor-mastery-improvement/ . Its not bugged here, it works like on official but i agree with Narmontas. Evasion is nerfed like 50% compared to old chronicles: C5 attacker 64 accuracy enemy 89 evasion -> evade rate = 72,5% source: http://www.l2p.l2wh.org/link.nonskillattacks
L2 classic attacker 64 accuracy, enemy 91 evasion -> evade rate = 36,5% source : https://4gameforum.com/threads/593504/  so as u see its around 50% worse.

To be honest on pvp it doesnt matter that much like Cyane said, everyone is using skills. But on pve it sucks that game forces u to use heavy on pve on daggers :(. Maybe we can customize it somehow on our server to fit more classic conception? Dex buff on 2,0 wont change anything in this case. Ull gain maybe 2 evasion with proper dyes compared to classic 1,5

[DuncanFox 2]

OK people Maybe I should have written it in report category , but modifying it comes more with suggesting and not reporting stuff...
I don't know what l2 experience are we trying to get here , but while I've played on both Russian and EU  Classic Officials , Evasion seemed to work properly and Magic Evasion meant something as well.  In this version well... I don't know the main cause of this problem it need investigation and lots of time , but ...  

M.EVA  - Useless stat. It adds nothing and fighting mechanics are still from  Gracian chronicle. It is nonexistent. Why Should I bother myself having +WIT dyes to get my dagger or archer character less likely to be hit by a nuke attack?   Rogue class doesn't have Magic Mastery like other classes and M.Eva is stat based for them to counter mages It looks like in this server it is broken and mage have a huge advance.

Another point is Evasion it also seems to be broken. My Ultimate evasion never evaded any physical skills  even though it says that it does... And My character with  High evasion and all masteries get hited 5/7 hits from monster that is 20 lvl lower. I think something is really wrong in here. If you run  into a pack of monster  with light armor you never get out of there alive. So It's not a players choice to wear Heavy or Light armor for Dagger class , But It's a main factor for survival.  You get almost the same times hit by a monsters if you are wearing light or heavy set... So why the hell is this  light armor mastery? why the hell should daggers use +DEX stat and why should anyone war Sets that adds evasion if it makes no difference? 

The whole my l2 experience when I played never really saw Evasion so broken , seriously...  If Monster is 10 levels lower he will hit like 1/3 hits or 1/5 hits if you're light armor class with masteries. And 20 level monster will hit you like 1/5 hits  or 1/9 hit if you're with mastery . Of course More hits taken  also depends on weapon monster is using. The ones with blunt will less be likely to miss while archers , daggers will miss much more. 

Accuracy vs monsters is OK. The ones with light armor do really  evade my attacks often , because I'm using : Bow , dagger. Rest looks decent. 

So I suggest to recheck evasion stat how does it behave and  if errors are found , lastly try to fix it. Thx

My Test

1. Not use Ultimate Evasion

Normal physical attack with low chance

Physical attack skill - never

M.Evasion - never

2. When use Ultimate Evasion lvl.2
For 30 seconds, increases Evasion by 25, physical attack skill Evasion Rate by 40%, and Resistance to buff-canceling attacks by 80

Normal physical attack with good chace

Physical attack skill - never

M.Evasion - never

So Fail if wear light armor

[Rizos 1487]

OK people Maybe I should have written it in report category , but modifying it comes more with suggesting and not reporting stuff...
I don't know what l2 experience are we trying to get here , but while I've played on both Russian and EU  Classic Officials , Evasion seemed to work properly and Magic Evasion meant something as well.  In this version well... I don't know the main cause of this problem it need investigation and lots of time , but ...  

M.EVA  - Useless stat. It adds nothing and fighting mechanics are still from  Gracian chronicle. It is nonexistent. Why Should I bother myself having +WIT dyes to get my dagger or archer character less likely to be hit by a nuke attack?   Rogue class doesn't have Magic Mastery like other classes and M.Eva is stat based for them to counter mages It looks like in this server it is broken and mage have a huge advance.

Another point is Evasion it also seems to be broken. My Ultimate evasion never evaded any physical skills  even though it says that it does... And My character with  High evasion and all masteries get hited 5/7 hits from monster that is 20 lvl lower. I think something is really wrong in here. If you run  into a pack of monster  with light armor you never get out of there alive. So It's not a players choice to wear Heavy or Light armor for Dagger class , But It's a main factor for survival.  You get almost the same times hit by a monsters if you are wearing light or heavy set... So why the hell is this  light armor mastery? why the hell should daggers use +DEX stat and why should anyone war Sets that adds evasion if it makes no difference? 

The whole my l2 experience when I played never really saw Evasion so broken , seriously...  If Monster is 10 levels lower he will hit like 1/3 hits or 1/5 hits if you're light armor class with masteries. And 20 level monster will hit you like 1/5 hits  or 1/9 hit if you're with mastery . Of course More hits taken  also depends on weapon monster is using. The ones with blunt will less be likely to miss while archers , daggers will miss much more. 

Accuracy vs monsters is OK. The ones with light armor do really  evade my attacks often , because I'm using : Bow , dagger. Rest looks decent. 

So I suggest to recheck evasion stat how does it behave and  if errors are found , lastly try to fix it. Thx

My Test

1. Not use Ultimate Evasion

Normal physical attack with low chance

Physical attack skill - never

M.Evasion - never

2. When use Ultimate Evasion lvl.2
For 30 seconds, increases Evasion by 25, physical attack skill Evasion Rate by 40%, and Resistance to buff-canceling attacks by 80

Normal physical attack with good chace

Physical attack skill - never

M.Evasion - never

So Fail if wear light armor

​Well, UE evades physical skills with some rate, dunno if its 40%, never tested it but for sure it works. Maybe u tried to evade physical skill with debuff like dwarf/archer stun. It works only on skils w/o debuf like double shot, triple sonic slash etc(if nothing have changed)

[gfbot 207]

Dex buff on 2,0 wont change anything in this case. Ull gain maybe 2 evasion with proper dyes compared to classic 1,5

​Do you have a link/proof? Cause I don't speak russian/korean. Nor have access to 2.0.

[kkthx 245]

Dex buff on 2,0 wont change anything in this case. Ull gain maybe 2 evasion with proper dyes compared to classic 1,5

​Do you have a link/proof? Cause I don't speak russian/korean. Nor have access to 2.0.

​same question.
 

Coz ive read patch notes of Savior 2.0, and all there said bout Dex was that it gets reworked, but no exact info. Looks like u have one.

WIT gets nerfed, but all mages gets additional passive skill +cast spd. and this is smthing. Dex has 0 info on it.

 

[Narmontas 34]

Still M.Eva is stat that increases by adding +WIT dye. Also increases by a level gained. But why do we have this stat if It's nonexistent? This really sucks , because players with high m.eva can counter mages. Let's say  Dagger class or dwarf could  evade 1-2 nukes of the mage if player have good running speed he can catch up with the mage and make trouble for it. But here even VS monsters their magic always hits That is so stupid...

[Rizos 1487]

Dex buff on 2,0 wont change anything in this case. Ull gain maybe 2 evasion with proper dyes compared to classic 1,5

​Do you have a link/proof? Cause I don't speak russian/korean. Nor have access to 2.0.

​Q: КАК ИЗМЕНИЛИСЬ ПАРАМЕТРЫ ЛВК И МДР В ОБНОВЛЕНИИ SAVIORS?
A: Параметры изменились следующим образом:
Мудрость
- влияет на скорость магии, шанс магического критического удара, магическую точность, магический уворот
МДР 1-30: c +5% за каждый +1 значения характеристики влияние снижено до +3.5%
МДР 31-99: c +2.5% за каждый +1 значения характеристики влияние снижено до +1.5%
Ловкость
- влияет на скорость атаки, физическую точность, физический уворот, шанс физического критического удара
ЛВК 1-30: c +0.9% за каждый +1 значения характеристики влияние увеличено до +1.2%
ЛВК 31-99: c +0.5% за каждый +1 значения характеристики влияние увеличено до +0.8%

that means:

Q: How to change the parameters DEX and WIT Saviors in the upgrade?
A: to change the following manner:
WIT
- Affects the casting speed, magic critical strike chance, magic accuracy, magic evasion
WIT 1-30: from + 5% (on classic 1,5) for each one values ​​the characteristics of the effect is reduced to + 3.5% (on classic 2,0)
WIT 31-99: from + 2.5% (on classic 1,5) for each one values ​​the characteristics of the effect is reduced to + 1.5% (on classic 2,0)
DEX
- Affects attack speed, physical accuracy, physical evasion, critical rate
DEX 1-30: from + 0.9% (on classic 1,5) for every 1 property value impact increased to + 1.2% (on classic 2,0)
Dex 31-99: from + 0.5% (on classic 1,5) for every 1 property value impact increased to + 0.8% (on classic 2,0)

Source : l2 classic innova ru pdf : https://4gameforum.com/threads/588536/

[Narmontas 34]

Would be nice to get any response from the staff  At least about M.Eva and M.Acc issue

[Rizos 1487]

Would be nice to get any response from the staff  At least about M.Eva and M.Acc issue

​Its still almost no chance to evade nukes even when they fix these stats. here is ru off experiment
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=pl&rurl=translate.google.pl&sl=ru&tl=en&u=https://4gameforum.com/threads/573236/&usg=ALkJrhgIyHawDFaVwjekdebhj5NDAGWybQ
Images dont work but u can see from coemnts below its 3-4% chance even with +12 wit dye on sr(1,2% w/o dye). Maybe if attacker is lower lvl than victim, that evasion chance increases an dplays bigger role, but 3-4% wont help anyone...

[Narmontas 34]

On official 4 Game (EU) this chance was really higher than 10% . At least for PvE . Because if they would have same 4% I wouldn't had so many magic evades  . Still this chance comes from another stat M.Acc . If your M.acc is low you miss more often. So let's say lower monsters , or stupid mage with - wit dye   Could help other dudes with higher  M.eva

[Narmontas 34]

Why nobody from staff updates about some recent changes in the game? Maybe I'm stupid and blind... But today my mage had n times of magic evaded hits from monsters. Don't know if it works against  other players , but still... Looks if we are suggesting something what is already implemented and should look stupid