my QQ post about this server

[kktnxbye 215]

Just now, Rip said:

There is one way to "outplay" 900 rage stun- use castle circlet but ofc not everybody has acccess to that

Sure, and core as well (if it will work as should). But circlet is 1 time use during the pvp. For instance - the day before yday when your pt(without you) went to loa heart - all dd were perma-stunned (obviously circlets didnt helped much), 0 ppl died from our side that pvp. I almost heard the desperation of sjeks (76lvl) when he was perma stunned by 72lvl HE.

It's should not be this way I suppose.

[weeeeD 118]

1 hour ago, Yomana said:

Come on i have seen necro's rushing into parties A LOT of times here when its 9v9. @BlackJack used to do it so he can pass silence to key chars.

This is a viable strategy.... I agree that stun is annoying as hell but thats the chronicle we are playing. Without stun or debuffs working as they are now mages would rule even more.

Blackjack was a lvl 76 necro with core2, fighting mostly lvl 70-73 people (i think ad cp was literally the only 74+ party they were fighting with and AD didnt have ES at the time) with no ES in their party, having a stupidly high silence chance with no counter play, not to mention his unique role of debuffer inside an archer party where 2 PRs did the killing. So yea, in his case it was the right call 90%+ of the time. Nowadays most people have the custom ES, most people are fighting similar level parties, so things are very different than what you've seen on bjack's POV few months back, you feel pretty stupid going in to silence someone (at what, ~40% chance against same lvl mental shield4 no epics?) successfully just to have their ES remove it half a second later.

On top of the lower range, debuffs like necro's fear/silence already have a much lower land rate than any stun (not saying they are weak skills, ofc they aren't, the main advantage over stun is the cast speed i guess), and if you are a few levels lower than your enemy the chance drops tremendously, meanwhile you can go fight some stuners 4 lvls below you and they'll still be landing stuns at a very high chance, so yea resist shock definitely feels a bit useless around here. 

If there was still a lvl 74-76 strong melee party like soil's around here, they'd probably be beating anyone party vs party (at lvl 74 they were already trashing oppa, dee, etc, 75-76 mages stacked with epics, quite easily i must say, cuz perma stun....) despite the mage's lightsabers. Oh, and Blackjack himself started playing offi and after a few days posted here saying how much lower the stun land rate is over there if you have a little level advantage, and that was his 1st class experience with no resist shock buff. 

But whatever, maybe nothing will ever change here cuz to begin with most of us can't even make a proper report with proofs, lets call it an unintended indirect way of balancing fighters against the +12 mage weapons for now, better get used to it guys . But they could at the very least fix core 3 removing stun, that would help at least the dedicated epic farmers  

[BlackJack 574]

35 minutes ago, weeeeD said:

Blackjack was a lvl 76 necro with core2, fighting mostly lvl 70-73 people (i think ad cp was literally the only 74+ party they were fighting with and AD didnt have ES at the time) with no ES in their party, having a stupidly high silence chance with no counter play, not to mention his unique role of debuffer inside an archer party where 2 PRs did the killing. So yea, in his case it was the right call 90%+ of the time. Nowadays most people have the custom ES, most people are fighting similar level parties, so things are very different than what you've seen on bjack's POV few months back, you feel pretty stupid going in to silence someone (at what, ~40% chance against same lvl mental shield4 no epics?) successfully just to have their ES remove it half a second later.

On top of the lower range, debuffs like necro's fear/silence already have a much lower land rate than any stun (not saying they are weak skills, ofc they aren't, the main advantage over stun is the cast speed i guess), and if you are a few levels lower than your enemy the chance drops tremendously, meanwhile you can go fight some stuners 4 lvls below you and they'll still be landing stuns at a very high chance, so yea resist shock definitely feels a bit useless around here. 

If there was still a lvl 74-76 strong melee party like soil's around here, they'd probably be beating anyone party vs party (at lvl 74 they were already trashing oppa, dee, etc, 75-76 mages stacked with epics, quite easily i must say, cuz perma stun....) despite the mage's lightsabers. Oh, and Blackjack himself started playing offi and after a few days posted here saying how much lower the stun land rate is over there if you have a little level advantage, and that was his 1st class experience with no resist shock buff. 

But whatever, maybe nothing will ever change here cuz to begin with most of us can't even make a proper report with proofs, lets call it an unintended indirect way of balancing fighters against the +12 mage weapons for now, better get used to it guys . But they could at the very least fix core 3 removing stun, that would help at least the dedicated epic farmers  

@reaper mentioned that they changed debuff land rate depending on level in a later patch on official tho so im not sure if its working fine or not on our server. I'd go with not, considering i've been silenced by the flower mobs in cruma while running to core with both orfen and core on me ( and yeah i know mob formula is different but it was a regular occasion and with core / orfen no matter the level difference the chance should be 8% ). Also its true about levels, when i came back playing i was 68 and soil etc were 74+ so i broke my hands solo farming to 76, while my party was easily 3-4 levels behind and still is actually. My role with the party was also indeed quite unique as I was playing essentially a tank/debuffer for our cp, so my strategy was always to stay infront, trying to fear melee/bards/tanks away from archers. Btw this strat has a very easy counter even if im 76 + full epics, magical backfire kills it completely and it's pretty easy to do as stayng infront usually exposes you to being chain aggroed/and eating a stun or two after crown buff expires.

 

59 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

Sure, and core as well (if it will work as should). But circlet is 1 time use during the pvp. For instance - the day before yday when your pt(without you) went to loa heart - all dd were perma-stunned (obviously circlets didnt helped much), 0 ppl died from our side that pvp. I almost heard the desperation of sjeks (76lvl) when he was perma stunned by 72lvl HE.

It's should not be this way I suppose.

on 1.5 72 char cna perma stun a 76 easily yes. But on current offi patch i can tell u that a char 4 levels under me could barely stun me maybe 10-15% chance and that was in partisan when we didnt have resist shocks.Idk when this is implemented but it will come in classic club sooner or later. Also in 2.0 you will get additional resists from stuff like chant of spirit and when people get majestics ( duno how hard it will be here compared to offi ) stun will be completele useless.

Btw balance on this server is so heavily stacked towards mages already that it's mildly infuriating that people complain about the only mechanic archers and especially melees have to fight against mages - stun. Mages already have 3 custom broken as shit stuff in their favour ( orfen3,custom pony,demons+12 ) and im saying that as a mage who has taken advantage of all of the above.

[Setzer 165]

Just passing by to say that a lvl 73 warlord rarely will stun necro lvl 76 (even without resist shock) with quick spear, just Thunder Storm will work. But when u reach lvl 74 and get the new quick spear, it will start to work very good =)

Edited September 28, 2017 by Setzer

[BlackJack 574]

24 minutes ago, Setzer said:

Just passing by to say that a lvl 73 warlord rarely will stun necro lvl 76 (even without resist shock) with quick spear, just Thunder Storm will work. But when u reach lvl 74 and get the new quick spear, it will start to work very good =)

72 tank/archer stuns work very well on 76 ppl, i've noticed warlord stun being less reliable though

[Reaper 84]

Ok, i wont quote anyone because there would be too many quotes.

I dont know how much any of you is familiar with L2/L2classic mechanics and what is your knowledge about future updates, but it looks to me that everyone just tries to make "fake" balancing in order to get advantage.

First about stun. People who dont play character with stun will say its 100% even with RS 4, but those same people will say necros fear/silence/horror are 70% and the reality would hit them the moment they would play the character for 1 day non stop pvp.

Why custom balancing is wrong? its because you balance things as complete part, not single items. Thats why NCsoft is nerfing CC durations (including stun, which eventho ppl will say from 9s to 7s is nothing, i can tell you its already huge nerf), they nerf some stuns landrate, they bring CC resist buffs. They boost daggers, because they were considerably weak on official. Now imagine you would nerf stun now, do you realize what would happen? They can nerf stun on 2.0 because they are boosting overall archer dps, having faster way to kill people instead of holding them under CC, but you cannot nerf 1 part withou counter boosting another one in most cases.

To @BlackJack, you could easily have that experience with stun, but making conclusion from that is utter bullshit. You said yourself it was in partisan, first class quest, you are getting skills every 4-5 lvls, so you could easily get situation that the stun level of dwarf was 7+ lvls lower than your character, thus having "10-15%" land rate. You could apply same analogy to this example. Imagine i am 72-73 Aw, you are 76 necro, i doubt i would have even 10% chance to land poison on you, eventho you are just 3-4 lvls higher than me. Why? Because last lvl poison is 8 lvls lower than your lvl. But i can guarantee you that if you do test on official right now stun shot from archer lvl 40 to your charachter lvl 44, land rate will be somewhere above 60-65% without resist shock (considering base land rate of stun shot is 80% in new update and you get ~20% of land rate penalty at 4 lvls).

Also i bet people on solo gank barely get RS 4 on them and in mass pvp the, dont really notice how much they resist coz its big mess, but feel free to try making stuns on target under RS 4, you will be surprised that from overwhelming 90% land rate you will get to 65%, which is noticable.

[BlackJack 574]

10 minutes ago, Reaper said:

To @BlackJack, you could easily have that experience with stun, but making conclusion from that is utter bullshit. You said yourself it was in partisan, first class quest, you are getting skills every 4-5 lvls, so you could easily get situation that the stun level of dwarf was 7+ lvls lower than your character, thus having "10-15%" land rate. You could apply same analogy to this example. Imagine i am 72-73 Aw, you are 76 necro, i doubt i would have even 10% chance to land poison on you, eventho you are just 3-4 lvls higher than me. Why? Because last lvl poison is 8 lvls lower than your lvl. But i can guarantee you that if you do test on official right now stun shot from archer lvl 40 to your charachter lvl 44, land rate will be somewhere above 60-65% without resist shock (considering base land rate of stun shot is 80% in new update and you get ~20% of land rate penalty at 4 lvls).

dwarfs get stun every 2 levels no? that dwarf was 29 i was 33, so he got stun from 28, meaning 5 levels difference. Dont think we are in a disagreement about anything, i just dont know as i havent played on offi when they made the debuff land rate depend more on level difference, since you said they did and its working fine here on 1.5. As i said i trust what you've said as debuffs really do land less depending on level on offi currently and i have no personal exp before 2.5 on offi. You are 100% correct about resist shock, i know you are pretty new to this server, but as any gaming community, its the same here, people find things to whine about all the time.

Edited September 28, 2017 by BlackJack

[Kure 444]

One example for all...stun shot from first class (dagers, archers) easily lands (80% + ) on 50 lvl chars... isnt it broken? 

[BlackJack 574]

1 minute ago, Kure said:

One example for all...stun shot from first class (dagers, archers) easily lands (80% + ) on 50 lvl chars... isnt it broken? 

well reaper says it was like that on offi too and later got changed. No way to test 1.5 offi classic now, but if you play 3 days on offi on the current patch ull notice how huge difference level makes. Also nukes fail much more etc, here u can kill lvl 76 char with cdls at raids and on offi thats beyond impossible. I dont know if it changed and if it did when, but if thats implemented here it would be really good as level would matter more than 100 hp

[kktnxbye 215]

2 hours ago, Reaper said:

Why custom balancing is wrong?

It's not. NCSoft changing the balance all the time just to keep players busy and for saving the audience. It's same obvious thing as usefullness of bugs bounty. Any sane person understand that.

[BlackJack 574]

6 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

It's not. NCSoft changing the balance all the time just to keep players busy and for saving the audience. It's same obvious thing as usefullness of bugs bounty. Any sane person understand that.

custom changes are good when they make sense. Adding the pony to make summoners desirable in patch 1,5 made sense even thought its borderline op in many ways. Keeping them for 2.0 is stupid due to obvious powercreep imbalance.

[Reaper 84]

23 hours ago, kktnxbye said:

You are absolutely right, the stun rate here is ridiculous. It makes resist stun buff useless. U can make +4 con and buff 4lvl resist and it will do 0 effect. Once I've seen pvp 1 sr with lowest ng bow (800adena) vs 2 mages 3-4lvl above. He just stunned them to death with his 800 adena bow with 0 damage recieved.

14 hours ago, kktnxbye said:

It's not. NCSoft changing the balance all the time just to keep players busy and for saving the audience. It's same obvious thing as usefullness of bugs bounty. Any sane person understand that.

Sorry, someone who thinks resist shock lvl 4 doesnt help at all with resisting stun or that its not noticable isnt someone worth to discuss balancing. I bet you have never played stun class on classic, right?

[Kure 444]

I would say that as a warlord 74 i land around 50% stuns on buffed enemies on my lvl range.... Wait for majestic, baium and bw (2.5) and gg rerol disband....

[kktnxbye 215]

28 minutes ago, Reaper said:

Sorry, someone who thinks resist shock lvl 4 doesnt help at all with resisting stun or that its not noticable isnt someone worth to discuss balancing. I bet you have never played stun class on classic, right?

No, u are wrong. I played archers (4x, 5x), wl 75 and dorf 5x. I dont remember any time when quick spear didnt work but close range stun doesnt work quite often. But I guess its broken geodata, not the landing rate. I seen hundreds of examples on core\orf when archers\glads stun tanks(+con) almost always. For 9 month I'm playing here I remember ~3 times when stun didnt landed on me. I can do the tests but we all know what the results will be.

[Kure 444]

12 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

No, u are wrong. I played archers (4x, 5x), wl 75 and dorf 5x. I dont remember any time when quick spear didnt work but close range stun doesnt work quite often. But I guess its broken geodata, not the landing rate. I seen hundreds of examples on core\orf when archers\glads stun tanks(+con) almost always. For 9 month I'm playing here I remember ~3 times when stun didnt landed on me. I can do the tests but we all know what the results will be.

Challenge accepted. We can test it later today

[Reaper 84]

18 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

No, u are wrong. I played archers (4x, 5x), wl 75 and dorf 5x. I dont remember any time when quick spear didnt work but close range stun doesnt work quite often. But I guess its broken geodata, not the landing rate. I seen hundreds of examples on core\orf when archers\glads stun tanks(+con) almost always. For 9 month I'm playing here I remember ~3 times when stun didnt landed on me. I can do the tests but we all know what the results will be.

So at core/orfen tanks get "almost always", yet you encountered just 3 times that you resisted stun? Do you play here for few days or what because other way its impossible and you should check your brain, the memory part might be damaged.

[Stiba007 225]

55 minutes ago, Reaper said:

Sorry, someone who thinks resist shock lvl 4 doesnt help at all with resisting stun or that its not noticable isnt someone worth to discuss balancing. I bet you have never played stun class on classic, right?

U probably didnt see him in game. Its better way waste time on Legiana's movie than talk with people like kkt. 

They dont see difference between EE and Sps or 2activ guys with 7boxes or lvls difference. Do u think that he can understand something from your words?

50 minutes ago, Kure said:

I would say that as a warlord 74 i land around 50% stuns on buffed enemies on my lvl range.... Wait for majestic, baium and bw (2.5) and gg rerol disband....

Are u sure that WL dont find other useage in slimline ToI?

Wl 74lvl has much bigger landrate on right chars. For u is not good try stun some chars. 

On other side when u see people like Tys0n in fight, their land stun is lower, if u use terrain. I have big fun yesterday when i was playing on Lafi(ES) and Tys0n show us his skill. Trees are so bad. 

 

 

[BlackJack 574]

1 hour ago, Reaper said:

So at core/orfen tanks get "almost always", yet you encountered just 3 times that you resisted stun? Do you play here for few days or what because other way its impossible and you should check your brain, the memory part might be damaged.

no he is the local clown , who doesnt know how classic mechanics work and thinks +4 con should make a huge difference in stun resistance. @kktnxbye duno if u are 76 yet but take a 72 archer with [bow] and spam stuns into urself with and without resist shock. Without he will stunlock u, with he wont. You always make claims based on your feelings and not tests, so discussion with you becomes really worthless.

[kktnxbye 215]

1) So our famous lawyer lier telling who is clown and who is not? And like always u've distorted what I'm saying. I didnt mention +4 con, i was talking about +12 con tanks, and they are still easily stunned by same lvl archers.

2) It's not "my feelings", it's my personal statistic. And I never claimed that I know how classic mechanics works - it's your lie again. I'm even created some topics when I didnt know how some things work.

@Reaper

"Sorry, someone who thinks resist shock lvl 4 doesnt help at all with resisting stun or that its not noticable isnt someone worth to discuss balancing."

Test 1:

60 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. Without stun resist (4lvl) 4\60 resisted. 

60 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. With stun resist (4lvl) 5\60 resisted. 

Test 2(5m after 1st test):

30 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. Without stun resist (4lvl) 3\30 resisted. 

30 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. With stun resist (4lvl) 0\30 resisted. 

Obviously seen that random >> stun resist 4lvl. That makes resist stun useless. Not completely I assume, maybe if we test it for more numbers, more tests..maybe it will show something, but as we can see - better to have a faith to the gods of random  and not in buff itself...

I dont want to waste my time for retards and liers, so bbgl

[Reaper 84]

2 hours ago, kktnxbye said:

@Reaper

"Sorry, someone who thinks resist shock lvl 4 doesnt help at all with resisting stun or that its not noticable isnt someone worth to discuss balancing."

Test 1:

60 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. Without stun resist (4lvl) 4\60 resisted. 

60 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. With stun resist (4lvl) 5\60 resisted. 

Test 2(5m after 1st test):

30 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. Without stun resist (4lvl) 3\30 resisted. 

30 quick spear wl 75 > sps 74. With stun resist (4lvl) 0\30 resisted. 

Obviously seen that random >> stun resist 4lvl. That makes resist stun useless. Not completely I assume, maybe if we test it for more numbers, more tests..maybe it will show something, but as we can see - better to have a faith to the gods of random  and not in buff itself...

I dont want to waste my time for retards and liers, so bbgl

So sweet how you try to act pro and that you are full of knowledge, sorry that you wasted so much time on such a useless test you made, but as you said, you wasted time for retards (A.K.A. yourself).

First of all, once you will have as much experience as I do with classic chronicle, then maybe we can try to speak about mechanics of it. Until then i can give you very useful site to study at least some mechanics of classic chronicle, you go to 4game eu forum and then pay visit to section "Experimentarium" or you can go to russian site and search topic "Час с Ольфом". Then you would find out that RS doesnt affect quick spear https://4gameforum.com/threads/574500/. Maybe you would like to enlighten us with archer stun/banana stun for which you actually have how the resist chances should work for different lvls/different buffs?

2 hours ago, kktnxbye said:

2) It's not "my feelings", it's my personal statistic.

PS: I knew i have seen you somewhere. I guess your personal statistics are not really reliable sources, because i guess you didnt really get high amount of stuns with your playstyle of rushing even in front of bards, dying in pvp after very first stun. Then of course its kind of implausible to resist anything if its 1 stun per 1 pvp.

Edited September 30, 2017 by Reaper

[BlackJack 574]

51 minutes ago, Reaper said:

So sweet how you try to act pro and that you are full of knowledge, sorry that you wasted so much time on such a useless test you made, but as you said, you wasted time for retards (A.K.A. yourself).

First of all, once you will have as much experience as I do with classic chronicle, then maybe we can try to speak about mechanics of it. Until then i can give you very useful site to study at least some mechanics of classic chronicle, you go to 4game eu forum and then pay visit to section "Experimentarium" or you can go to russian site and search topic "Час с Ольфом". Then you would find out that RS doesnt affect quick spear https://4gameforum.com/threads/574500/. Maybe you would like to enlighten us with archer stun/banana stun for which you actually have how the resist chances should work for different lvls/different buffs?

PS: I knew i have seen you somewhere. I guess your personal statistics are not really reliable sources, because i guess you didnt really get high amount of stuns with your playstyle of rushing even in front of bards, dying in pvp after very first stun. Then of course its kind of implausible to resist anything if its 1 stun per 1 pvp.

told you, since you are new here you dont know kktnxbye is one of the famous baddies on the server. We had a running competition who would kill him first in mass pvps in my cp at some point before he joined SM and moved prime to earlier hours than eu prime. Some others are Legiana(heard he rerolled away from PR), tyraistene(spelling). Cleef ( didnt see him much in mass pvps last 2-3 months, but you can always farm him in BS.