Suggestion: Separating the fourth group into two different groups

[qloc01 207]

your dye ? modoy? in your vid?

 

​i wrote setup on video description (at least what i knew or was able to show, dunno about cyane, since he is playing dagger as main, maybe he wouldnt even like to have his dyes revealed  

​i dont care about your dye secret, but i read your vid description and i must tell you that your test is unrealistic, becoz dagger or any melee class in classic CANT lost any CON at any price, so i suggest you to have a more realistic test with 4 str 8 CON or 12 CON even or just no DYE, pls dont ask me why dagger dye CON, pls just dont

@qloc01 Bullshit. For PVE he will use PVE dye, that's all. If you don't want to loose CON don't do it. It's all up to you. But this test was realistic. Many chars farming dye like this. If you don't it was your loss. 

​ok so when war come to you, would you tell them "hey guys, were on PVE dye, can you wait 20 mins for us to change dye?" even when wartag has same level? or you want pve forever ?

​i wonder, have u ever tried xp with archer with +8 or even +12 CON? i guess not, coz u would know its bullsh1t, u need to go +STR - CON on pve, and it sucks even more coz u cannot carry even1k arrows 5k shots, and nobody asks me when war comes about my dyes on archer as well

sure, i could make test with dager +12 con, but then i will compare it to xp on archer +12 con, and i am pretty sure the difference in xp will be even less significant, coz archer profits 1000x more from str than dagger, would u be happier?

also all this argument is about "daggers cannot xp as fast as others" while we showed they can, i dont see problem in that

​dude, youre an archer, you could have -5 or -10 COn but still very decent in pvp, go ask some dagger who put -15 CON and lets see what would they tell you

[MoDoy 1772]

ok, so we somehow managed to get together with cyane and like that we had enough clients to run all the supports needed to test what dps can dagger pt do

what were the problems we got into - first of all, dunno what happened, but we had insane lags, like 2s delays at that moment, which was totally screwing us, but overall killing speed was really good. however daggers are way too squishy with pve setup (especially could be seen on pytan when it could 3 shot us), thus would be perfect if the pt could have tank, or maybe just more lvls on daggers (u can see the mobs were pink/red for me, satyrka was just 2 lvls higher which would still leave mobs at pink color), also boxes support was not so good in case we needed heal or simlpy switching on boxes when u had to kite few mobs on dagger

what could improve farming - higher lvl, if the mobs were white to us, we would do more crits, better dmg, would take less dmg, get better xp, delay debuff bug fixed (in this movie both stigma and hex are getting in effect once mob is half hp done, so we had to debuff from boxes before we even finished killing mob so the effects start running once we hit), better weapons (i was using crystal dagger +0, satyrka had kris +0)

so as i said many times, it might be cancerous and maybe not so comfortable to xp with daggers in pt as it is to xp with AoE, but its definitely doable and its not waste of time, if u find yourself good setup of classes/place to farm which works for u, maybe try to experiment a bit yourself and u might be surprised that even useless class like TK would be in this case better than DA

(once again, u dont need to watch video to be somehow persuaded its not sh1t, ~9 mins of xp is sped up there, we were in loa for more than 1-2 hours xping)

 

 

​mhh were yesterday with a level 58 WL ... 4 ppl .. 650k each train... we were able to run 8-10 trains a buffround... perfect spot and no people there.

So i still think WL / Glady / Tyr outperforming ( except mages ) every other class in xping.

But i agree on the dagger / archer part

 

ps: why crystaldagger *teaser* when you can make 50kk a day ? *btw teach me *

​as i said, u can find good setup with good spot for almost any class, its just about trying out possibilities, also at some lvls certain class can have that good spot, later on it might change and so on, this was just to show its not like u cannot do anything with dagger
PS: coz i am not currently playing it, once i will xp it normally i will buy myself OE kris or OE crystal dagger ^^ why would i put money on something i dont currently play

​i wonder, have u ever tried xp with archer with +8 or even +12 CON? i guess not, coz u would know its bullsh1t, u need to go +STR - CON on pve, and it sucks even more coz u cannot carry even1k arrows 5k shots, and nobody asks me when war comes about my dyes on archer as well

sure, i could make test with dager +12 con, but then i will compare it to xp on archer +12 con, and i am pretty sure the difference in xp will be even less significant, coz archer profits 1000x more from str than dagger, would u be happier?

also all this argument is about "daggers cannot xp as fast as others" while we showed they can, i dont see problem in that

​dude, youre an archer, you could have -5 or -10 COn but still very decent in pvp, go ask some dagger who put -15 CON and lets see what would they tell you

​yeah,  archer with -10 con is so decent that with song of warding his HP is 2 shotted by necro w/o dances (which he can pull immediately after each other in less than 1 second), cool story

[BeNicePls 39]

your dye ? modoy? in your vid?

 

​i wrote setup on video description (at least what i knew or was able to show, dunno about cyane, since he is playing dagger as main, maybe he wouldnt even like to have his dyes revealed  

​i dont care about your dye secret, but i read your vid description and i must tell you that your test is unrealistic, becoz dagger or any melee class in classic CANT lost any CON at any price, so i suggest you to have a more realistic test with 4 str 8 CON or 12 CON even or just no DYE, pls dont ask me why dagger dye CON, pls just dont

@qloc01 Bullshit. For PVE he will use PVE dye, that's all. If you don't want to loose CON don't do it. It's all up to you. But this test was realistic. Many chars farming dye like this. If you don't it was your loss. 

​ok so when war come to you, would you tell them "hey guys, were on PVE dye, can you wait 20 mins for us to change dye?" even when wartag has same level? or you want pve forever ?

​i wonder, have u ever tried xp with archer with +8 or even +12 CON? i guess not, coz u would know its bullsh1t, u need to go +STR - CON on pve, and it sucks even more coz u cannot carry even1k arrows 5k shots, and nobody asks me when war comes about my dyes on archer as well

sure, i could make test with dager +12 con, but then i will compare it to xp on archer +12 con, and i am pretty sure the difference in xp will be even less significant, coz archer profits 1000x more from str than dagger, would u be happier?

also all this argument is about "daggers cannot xp as fast as others" while we showed they can, i dont see problem in that

​dude, youre an archer, you could have -5 or -10 COn but still very decent in pvp, go ask some dagger who put -15 CON and lets see what would they tell you

 

U are right @qloc01 dagger is very very hard class for many diferent reasons.

I thought in making a list with all these reasons about why dagger is so hard class, but still didnt make. One of these reasons is what u are saying here.

Since Wizzard dyes set up is same for pve than pvp +12 wit,

Archer same, they can go +8str for pve/pvp or any other similar set up, valid for both pve/pvp.

Tyrant, Gladi, Warlord same or similar, they can aoe, so they can keep pvp dyes set up.

For daggers, if u want pve, u must go +8/12 str, if you dont go +str dyes, urs xp will be even lower than it already is. if you go +8/+12 str that means -8/-12/-10/-15 con what means you are crap for pvp. If you reduce DEX, you arent so good for pve, so lower xp, and 2.0 is comming soon and DEX will be more important, so imo pointless reduce DEX.

 

Is waste of time talk about something with Modoy, he is blind, not literally, but blind.

 

Thanks, see you.

 

PD: OFFTOPIC: someone can tell me how stigma is working on a private msg in forum? stigma lands 100% on a lvl 65+ mobs if you are lvl 52-55 SE? thanks.

[MoDoy 1772]

 ​i wonder, have u ever tried xp with archer with +8 or even +12 CON? i guess not, coz u would know its bullsh1t, u need to go +STR - CON on pve, and it sucks even more coz u cannot carry even1k arrows 5k shots, and nobody asks me when war comes about my dyes on archer as well

sure, i could make test with dager +12 con, but then i will compare it to xp on archer +12 con, and i am pretty sure the difference in xp will be even less significant, coz archer profits 1000x more from str than dagger, would u be happier?

also all this argument is about "daggers cannot xp as fast as others" while we showed they can, i dont see problem in that

​dude, youre an archer, you could have -5 or -10 COn but still very decent in pvp, go ask some dagger who put -15 CON and lets see what would they tell you

 

U are right @qloc01 dagger is very very hard class for many diferent reasons.

I thought in making a list with all these reasons about why dagger is so hard class, but still didnt make. One of these reasons is what u are saying here.

Since Wizzard dyes set up is same for pve than pvp +12 wit,

Archer same, they can go +8str for pve/pvp or any other similar set up, valid for both pve/pvp.

Tyrant, Gladi, Warlord same or similar, they can aoe, so they can keep pvp dyes set up.

For daggers, if u want pve, u must go +8/12 str, if you dont go +str dyes, urs xp will be even lower than it already is. if you go +8/+12 str that means -8/-12/-10/-15 con what means you are crap for pvp. If you reduce DEX, you arent so good for pve, so lower xp, and 2.0 is comming soon and DEX will be more important, so imo pointless reduce DEX.

Is waste of time talk about something with Modoy, he is blind, not literally, but blind.

Thanks, see you.

PD: OFFTOPIC: someone can tell me how stigma is working on a private msg in forum? stigma lands 100% on a lvl 65+ mobs if you are lvl 52-55 SE? thanks.

​srsly, this theories, did u guys played dagger or just heard about it from some echo when u were running to farm spot? there are literally like 4 daggers on our server, so if they say only good build on dagger is + con its only possible option? maybe u heard that the best is doom heavy on dagger for pvp, yet u can see TheLord (which i consider the best dagger on our server, maybe because of lvl, dunno, but we might see in future) running in drake leather armor, there are different approaches on how to play dagger, and just because u didnt find another one than the mainstream one, its not my problem

u tell me dagger must go +8/12 str for pve? i wonder what would u say if i found way how to xp fast with different setup (lets say half-kills), i am pretty sure u would find another excuse why to call me blind? or what if i show u how u can pvp with +8 str dyes? will u say its because i am not high lvl yet or another bullsh1t? but hey, i am not admin or i dont have test server to try the things u would like to see in perfect world, i can work only with characters and clients i have right now, yet i somehow managed to bring u videos

its so funny how u guys are trying to flame me, how i dont see single thing, yet u brought 0 (ZERO) proofs to back your words, you are just throwing random arguments here and there, while i did take time, tried to find the best options how to best xp dagger solo (with buffer box) or in full pt containing only daggers as DD, yet u still try to flame hard

ps: yes, stigma is debuff like in its own category, its 100% which ignores lvl difference (so u can land it from 50 lvl se to 76 destro with guts), it also doesnt generate aggresion, means if u use it on mob, it doesnt aggro on you like with other debuffs) and so far its only debuff of its kind, however in 2.0 there should be "real target" for archers, which should be in same category

[Haibara 23]

man, i solo farm i dont use Dyes. i got a lot of Active War. i cant never been 20 minutes in a spot, with some war appear. or i fight or if i see i cant kill (cause i cant kill a Tyrant Destro) i must hide, and hide away from his range. 
 

so...when we are in Siege weekend i put +8 or +12 con. on monday, i delete Dyes... to farm. 40 str 30 dex 43 con. im using Bw light set and Drake +6. at "high" lvl thelord tell me something i dont see before, and its good to use Light cause some reasons. but heavy at low lvl its fine. 

well. i miss the point... oh yes.  i only try +12 str, to see if Critical Chance of backtab Change  . and nothing. never +12 str again. too low HP & CP. and Weitgh. 

so my best its Bases Stats for Solo. i cant use PL to gain +4str , cause Def of PL, Sucks at lvl 70 mobs. so... bw light demon dagger +6 PP buff. and Waste SS .

 

edit: and pot a lot .

[BeNicePls 39]

    ...

Is waste of time talk about something with Modoy, he is blind, not literally, but blind.

...

​@qloc01 you see? is just feed the tr*ll.

[qloc01 207]

actually i went for modoy side, dagger is not a very OP class, i know its not fair to ppl who play dagger at the first day of sv, but not allow even another rogue class can change to dagger is a little too much, i mean we doesnt need to make it like that, we have so few daggers already, i want to kill tatsumaki again

[MoDoy 1772]

man, i solo farm i dont use Dyes. i got a lot of Active War. i cant never been 20 minutes in a spot, with some war appear. or i fight or if i see i cant kill (cause i cant kill a Tyrant Destro) i must hide, and hide away from his range. 
 

so...when we are in Siege weekend i put +8 or +12 con. on monday, i delete Dyes... to farm. 40 str 30 dex 43 con. im using Bw light set and Drake +6. at "high" lvl thelord tell me something i dont see before, and its good to use Light cause some reasons. but heavy at low lvl its fine. 

well. i miss the point... oh yes.  i only try +12 str, to see if Critical Chance of backtab Change  . and nothing. never +12 str again. too low HP & CP. and Weitgh. 

so my best its Bases Stats for Solo. i cant use PL to gain +4str , cause Def of PL, Sucks at lvl 70 mobs. so... bw light demon dagger +6 PP buff. and Waste SS .

 

edit: and pot a lot .

​https://4gameforum.com/threads/560661/ 

" During the experiment, we "play" with parameters forces and Dex and found that the Forces (STR) option is largely increases the chance of critical attack skills than Dex. "

nice testing u did there, but who knows how much u tried, if its really bugged it should be reported to fix, however u can see test here with increase STR, and with increased STR u have 30% more chance to do double backstab, which is kinda lot i would say?

also talking about daggers about sieges is freaking pointless, anything beyond 27 vs 27 is beyond pointless to talk with connection to dagger, daggers always were and will be useless in mass scale pvp

ps: ofc u xp as sh1t with BW light set, pp buffs and no dyes, guess what, my archer would do jacksh1t as well with that build

[Haibara 23]

i test it on talking island live. and no change.  i waste time and money. bah, no time. just money to test it. and nothing happends. even the crit dmg was +100/150 pts. so no str for daggers in classic.

ps: i cant put dye cause the war love to hunt me, little archer. if i dont see comming and nuke me with -15con, easy Nuke and frag. so i dont take risk.

[MoDoy 1772]

i test it on talking island live. and no change.  i waste time and money. bah, no time. just money to test it. and nothing happends. even the crit dmg was +100/150 pts. so no str for daggers in classic.

ps: i cant put dye cause the war love to hunt me, little archer. if i dont see comming and nuke me with -15con, easy Nuke and frag. so i dont take risk.

​as i said, making excuse war is hunting u is invalid, i doubt wars are hunting u more than me, yet i am that build, thing u are blind and cannot notice them fast enough is also just your bad, and overall that has nothing to do with the theme of topic

no pain no gain, no risk = no good xp

[Haibara 23]

HAHAHAHA no pain no gain , no risk = no good xp. hahahahahaha .

see dhemon , Kat, BD, sws & pp behind him.  its beatiful see one user with 4 box behind.  i mean, this is not classic. 
 

anyway, dagger still harder than archer. say what you want. or just reroll now to dagger, cause maybe in future you cant do it.

 

ps: if you dont test it all dyes, like me. please dont talk to the wind. 

[MoDoy 1772]

HAHAHAHA no pain no gain , no risk = no good xp. hahahahahaha .

see dhemon , Kat, BD, sws & pp behind him.  its beatiful see one user with 4 box behind.  i mean, this is not classic. 
 

anyway, dagger still harder than archer. say what you want. or just reroll now to dagger, cause maybe in future you cant do it.

 

ps: if you dont test it all dyes, like me. please dont talk to the wind. 

​i am pretty sure i will always be able to reroll to dagger from archer, dont worry about it

can we see some results of your tests? as i said, if u are sure STR doesnt affect double backstab crit rate, go report it, coz its bugged,
i dont need to test all dye possibility, only thing i had to do was find good enough setup to xp dagger

[Haibara 23]

i tested and report via Skype to koll. some month ago. we dont know what is bugged and what no. classic are classic. many things dont work like other cronics. and this is a custom server.. so.... what we see in oficial classic. hard to report to work in the same way here. so.... if str dont affect daggers. its ok. i just use others dyes.

[Rizos 1487]

We know what is bugged because we have official classic tests on 4game forum. I mentioned this bug several times in my posts but i never did like official bug report topic because i couldnt make test to proof it since test server is down. Also i agree this server has some custom things and i rly hate some of them but unless something is not said by gms that its intended to work different but it works different than on official then i would consider it as a bug and report it.

[Cyane 230]

UP keep voting and leaving new opinions

[Cyane 230]

Up!

[stukker 0]

And mow saummoners to 5 group and Bishop the 1st group. Or change nothing for less then 130 ppl vote here. 

[BeNicePls 39]

Hi guys,

More than 1 month since thread / pol opened.

and, since first days same vote results.

less than 1 each 4 to not separate group and more than 3 each 4 guys want to separate groups.

[pako 33]

Or change nothing for less then 130 ppl vote here. 

​Cool story bro

[San0 2419]

This topic and poll will now be closed. Change option wins. more info about this changes to be found here http://l2classic.club/forum/topic/13646-class-change-services-changes/