Dagger class.

[San0 2416]

ok boys and girls.

from what i have seen now the dagger classes seams to be the ones with bigger amount of possible problms still existing.

There for i ask you to use this topic and report everything that you find it work not correct together with some explanation of how it should work correct. (and if possible provide info/proof from official server)

please dont spam with suggestions for changes just becuz you THINK its wrong or you dont like how it works.

This topic will work as a guide line for me to check it all and it would be easier if i could have all the "problms" reported on the same topic.

i will also create a dagger channel on discord so if you dont like to use forum you can just speak your mind in there.

discord channel: https://discord.gg/A8VdVKT

 

 

Edited February 7, 2017 by San0

[Cyane 230]

I tested backstab with +12 STR -15 CON on th lvl 64 (not using any armor/buffs). against shilen elder lvl 64 (just set karmian, no buffs) doing duels.

1) Missed backstabs: 5/105 (land rate of backstab = 95.24%)

2) Half-Kills: 14/105 (13.33% chances of half-kill with backstab)

3) Critical backstab: 10/100 (100 backstabs landed, and only 10 were criticals, meaning that backstab has 10% chances of doing critical with +12 str, th lvl 64)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Land rate of backstab from behind ( https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/  ) it should be 71.75% from behind

2) Half-kill shouldnt exist ( https://4gameforum.com/threads/558185/page-6 and https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/ read the final comments from people). Also a member from official eu ( _URGE_ ) who is adventurer lvl 77, told me that there are no half-kills on pm. And i personally havent seen any half-kill in olympiad videos on official.

3) STR influence on chances to get backstab critical (x2 backstab damage) is bugged https://4gameforum.com/threads/560661/ see the tables of the experiment. Base chance for a 64 lvl th should be 10%, which is the result of my tests. But i should expect an increase in chances to get x2 backstab dmg due to +12 str dyes.

[Arcanum 312]

i'll just re-post from the other thread, so it doesn't get lost:

​I made 100 deadly blows from front (Target: SE Lv. 72 - no buffs).

42 times: Block with around -30% dmg reduce

11 times: complete Block (0 or 1 dmg - target shows Message "Blocked")

Rest was "misses" and full dmg on target!

Very high block chance 

https://4gameforum.com/threads/586609/

https://4gameforum.com/threads/586529/ 

based on the infos above:

- dark elfs have the lowest CON in game, so i presume that their default block chance should be around 30% more or less, althou i can't say for sure as i don't know how shield def rate scales in this server;

- judging by Anytime's tests, shield def rate is set around 50% at the moment by default, wich is wrong.

and the reason it's wrong is very simple: considering the first test from offi, a block rate of 55% can be achieved only with a doom set, blessed shield lv6 and at least 46 CON.

[Rizos 1487]

Also dex should affect backstab x2 rate as well as blow land rate, I tested only x2 backstab chance with 12 dex and was same as w/o any dye, didnt test blow landrate with +dex  cos its bugge dnow anyway

land rates with modified dex: https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/

x2 dmg backstab chance depending on modified DEX and STR (both should affect x2 dmg chance) https://4gameforum.com/threads/560661/

 

Trick/Switch on low lvl daggers doesnt work well vs mental shield ( too low land rate). Here is switch base chance. There is no test with mental shield but assuming you said mental lvl4 should cut land rates by half i think switch should be 40% on mental 4

https://4gameforum.com/threads/571138/

P.S. I found 1 more dagger bug but its only on AW. When i hex enemy, hex activation is delated and my 1st backstab doesnt get bonus dmg from hex if i backstab too fast after hex  

[Spilek 1]

I tested backstab with +12 STR -15 CON on th lvl 64 (not using any armor/buffs). against shilen elder lvl 64 (just set karmian, no buffs) doing duels.

1) Missed backstabs: 5/105 (land rate of backstab = 95.24%)

2) Half-Kills: 14/105 (13.33% chances of half-kill with backstab)

3) Critical backstab: 10/100 (100 backstabs landed, and only 10 were criticals, meaning that backstab has 10% chances of doing critical with +12 str, th lvl 64)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Land rate of backstab from behind ( https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/  ) it should be 71.75% from behind

2) Half-kill shouldnt exist ( https://4gameforum.com/threads/558185/page-6 and https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/ read the final comments from people). Also a member from official eu ( _URGE_ ) who is adventurer lvl 77, told me that there are no half-kills on pm. And i personally havent seen any half-kill in olympiad videos on official.

3) STR influence on chances to get backstab critical (x2 backstab damage) is bugged https://4gameforum.com/threads/560661/ see the tables of the experiment. Base chance for a 64 lvl th should be 10%, which is the result of my tests. But i should expect an increase in chances to get x2 backstab dmg due to +12 str dyes.

​First time I hear about this,  I was playing Skelth before i get here and Half Kill exist for sure.

[Cyane 230]

I tested backstab with +12 STR -15 CON on th lvl 64 (not using any armor/buffs). against shilen elder lvl 64 (just set karmian, no buffs) doing duels.

1) Missed backstabs: 5/105 (land rate of backstab = 95.24%)

2) Half-Kills: 14/105 (13.33% chances of half-kill with backstab)

3) Critical backstab: 10/100 (100 backstabs landed, and only 10 were criticals, meaning that backstab has 10% chances of doing critical with +12 str, th lvl 64)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Land rate of backstab from behind ( https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/  ) it should be 71.75% from behind

2) Half-kill shouldnt exist ( https://4gameforum.com/threads/558185/page-6 and https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/ read the final comments from people). Also a member from official eu ( _URGE_ ) who is adventurer lvl 77, told me that there are no half-kills on pm. And i personally havent seen any half-kill in olympiad videos on official.

3) STR influence on chances to get backstab critical (x2 backstab damage) is bugged https://4gameforum.com/threads/560661/ see the tables of the experiment. Base chance for a 64 lvl th should be 10%, which is the result of my tests. But i should expect an increase in chances to get x2 backstab dmg due to +12 str dyes.

​First time I hear about this,  I was playing Skelth before i get here and Half Kill exist for sure.

​Maybe it was in 1.3 or before. On the description it was there for sure, but then it was removed. Since then i havent seen any video with half-kills, we talk about 1.5-2.0. If you find a official video with a dagger doing half-kill in 1.5-2.0 version, i will be happy since i main a dagger

[MoDoy 1772]

here is the report for deadly blow land rate from front, i guess it might be bugged from behind as well, its just not tested

so, since start of the topic http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/13249-suggestion-separating-the-fourth-group-into-two-different-groups/&page=1 where ppl tried to persuade me how dagger suck, i started to play it (solo xp, party xp, solo gangs) and noticed several bugs

land rate of blows, especially deadly blow from front (thats the one i tested personally, but i guess same goes for deadly/backstab from the back of enemy), its too high, ~80% (tested with pw 57 doing 100 deadly blows on pp 56, and th 62 doing deadly blows on wc 63) while on official it is ~45%

so if u could test it up san0 (from front, from back, deadly, backstab) and also coz i am jew i would like to see if dex affecting blow land rate works here (also if landrate is already 80% with 30 dex here, there is not much to notice even if i add 12 dex, coz i could just be lucky get 90+% from my test), and if its broken to fix it

https://4gameforum.com/threads/564968/

TEST DONE ON LIVE SERVER:

 

​

[San0 2416]

no off topics please.

[Haibara 23]

my point of view as dagger. its mental shield vs trick & switch. only in classic affects.  and the critica (x2) landrate. its too low and there are no dyes to modifiy the land. i tryed +12 dex and +12str and my brain say me, you got to use Stats Base (pve) maybe +8con for pvp. anyway.

half kill on classic, dont know how to say but i dont see  DAV half kill in his ollys. 

and dmg of blow i dont know if they are right.

things what i see playing as dagger in classic.

[Arcanum 312]

some more stuff from offi regarding buffs and skill damage: https://4gameforum.com/threads/629701/

[Cyane 230]

I tested land rate of deadly blow from front with a th lv. 65 against prophet lvl 65. I had -15 dex dyes + bw heavy (-2 dex). I did 100 tries and 80 deadly blows landed (~80% land rate). Comparing with Modoy test (80% land rate from a pw with no dyes), this means that dex has no influence on deadly blow's land rate (and perhaps backstab is not affected either).

Influence of dex on land rate should work like this https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/

[DheMoN 4]

Dagger class are very OVERPOWERED, nerf them.

 

[Haibara 23]

5 hours ago, DheMoN said:

Dagger class are very OVERPOWERED, nerf them.

 

for you who play with sws bd and pp behind your back, of course its will be overpower. play with a pp and take some balls for play dagger roll. you arent enoutgh for that kind of char. so then talk. 
or wait,, you reroll to .... ?? 

going back to the post... dagger overpower ? dont talk stupid things.... SR stun its OP.... wtf.. 3/3 4/4 ..... with Stun resist buff 4 . G_G

by the way, the only dyes usefull in this servers its CONSTITUTION (ye, in rol paper game its call constitution).

Edited February 25, 2017 by Haibara

[DheMoN 4]

2 hours ago, Haibara said:

for you who play with sws bd and pp behind your back, of course its will be overpower. play with a pp and take some balls for play dagger roll. you arent enoutgh for that kind of char. so then talk. 
or wait,, you reroll to .... ?? 

going back to the post... dagger overpower ? dont talk stupid things.... SR stun its OP.... wtf.. 3/3 4/4 ..... with Stun resist buff 4 . G_G

by the way, the only dyes usefull in this servers its CONSTITUTION (ye, in rol paper game its call constitution).

Is ironic Haibara,

Better than say all that u say for nothing, and looks like i am crying, better say it is overpowered with ironic, cause admins wont make big thing, or at least didnt make

Yes, you are right,

I can tell you many examples too

Try move to an archer, wizzard, tyrant, gladi, tank, summoner and kill them on 1 vs 1.

Archer, u will get stun before u get him, if you go in hide, even u have a chance of fail backstab, then no more hide, he target u, stun, is landing 100%, so bye bye. you are dead.

Same with necro, you go to him, even if you on hide, cause if you dont go hide, from 900 range to close range, he nuke you a lot or can even smoke a cigarete, cast fear, anchor, ...

well, if you go on hide, you backstab him, if you are lucky no backstab fail, u deal around 2k damage, 1k him, 1k pet, then he target u, fear, bye bye, you are dead.

Tyrant, same story, stun u 100%, oh no wait, no 100%, 99%

DA same story

Dwarfs same

Only in some classes, like archers, some mages, no necro, with low con, if you luckyly land a 2x backstab, you can drop them.

but eeeey, u know what? STR doesnt affect 2x backstab like it should, so another crap.

I dont know why if debuffs are landing with so big rate, and daggers doesnt have debuffs like stun, fear, anchor, ..

why the only fuucking debuffs (trick,switch) daggers have are not working properly?

Oh wait, we have bleed!!!

 

Are you more happy now Haibara?

Useless words here.

Lot of bugs and things not working like retail/oficial. Deal with it!!! This is no oficial.

Edited February 25, 2017 by DheMoN

[Rizos 1487]

2 hours ago, Haibara said:

for you who play with sws bd and pp behind your back, of course its will be overpower. play with a pp and take some balls for play dagger roll. you arent enoutgh for that kind of char. so then talk. 
or wait,, you reroll to .... ?? 

going back to the post... dagger overpower ? dont talk stupid things.... SR stun its OP.... wtf.. 3/3 4/4 ..... with Stun resist buff 4 . G_G

by the way, the only dyes usefull in this servers its CONSTITUTION (ye, in rol paper game its call constitution).

Some1 crying about that handless Modiy. Damn

Entangle not op?

Edited February 25, 2017 by Rizos

[Haibara 23]

9 hours ago, Rizos said:

Some1 crying about that handless Modiy. Damn

Entangle not op?

beatiful entangle -.-""   
and ye dhemon, its like you said. i dont read it in ironic state. only in fury state  sorry.

[BeNicePls 39]

Edited March 1, 2017 by BeNicePls

[DheMoN 4]

On 25/2/2017 at 10:41 PM, Haibara said:

beatiful entangle -.-""   
and ye dhemon, its like you said. i dont read it in ironic state. only in fury state  sorry.

I happy, i like to see that u think same than me.

[Haibara 23]

On 1/3/2017 at 8:05 PM, DheMoN said:

I happy, i like to see that u think same than me.

trick & switch are affected by mental shield, thats big lol and dont know why its like that. i dont remember mental shield afect trick & switch in other cronics.

and i dont considerate as debuff. remove swith and trick restriction on mental shield

[Rizos 1487]

Lol trick/swith, bluff detarget effect, silence, fear were always main mental attacks on old and classic chroniclesm you are just clueless

[VIII 0]

I see that post now..So as new i have to say my opinion ..
Umm i play dagger class about  years and more Low and Mid rate servers..
The main point of official like servers is that P.ATTACK affects on critical damage not DEX.
That means STR + goes to do more damage to your skills that is almost everytime critical.
Dex gives your crit rate spd atck speed etc, So dont confuse the people and say that Dex affects damage and more..No way.
And a simple example just to see check all daggers SA..when they say Crit damage read the description bellow all gives you P.attack to do more damage. Not DEX or anything else..
Also that have to work also with dyes...if u have STR dyes + if ur damage is not goes up something have to fix. 
I didnt have wear dyes here yet to test it..
Thanks for your time .
 

[MoDoy 1772]

5 hours ago, VIII said:

I see that post now..So as new i have to say my opinion ..
Umm i play dagger class about  years and more Low and Mid rate servers..
The main point of official like servers is that P.ATTACK affects on critical damage not DEX.
That means STR + goes to do more damage to your skills that is almost everytime critical.
Dex gives your crit rate spd atck speed etc, So dont confuse the people and say that Dex affects damage and more..No way.
And a simple example just to see check all daggers SA..when they say Crit damage read the description bellow all gives you P.attack to do more damage. Not DEX or anything else..
Also that have to work also with dyes...if u have STR dyes + if ur damage is not goes up something have to fix. 
I didnt have wear dyes here yet to test it..
Thanks for your time .
 

nobody in topic said DEX is affecting damage? ppl just said its also affecting x2 backstab chance (in previous chronicles only STR affected it), which is truth

also DEX doesnt give u speed anymore

Edited April 9, 2017 by MoDoy

[Dancerok 21]

From what I know, and I took info from 4game forum, STR = x2 crit chance, Dex = lethal blow chance, C0N = will y know what con gives....

[Dancerok 21]

But this info probably relevant for 2.0

 

[Poseidon 452]

1

Edited April 11, 2017 by Poseidon