Daggers

[Dancerok 21]

Okey Ladys and gentelman, I creating this topic with hope that administration will take a look at poor daggers clas that suffers a lot in this patch ( 1.5 ). So the point of my topic to prove that the Dmg of skills Backstab and deadly blow working uncorect here compare to GK same skillz in 1.5 patch. So to prove it here as a main base of dmg from where I will take information I will provide a Link to video where TH Takezo lvl 63 ( at video recording time ) doing daily PvP against different classes with different buffs. I will underline moment that I want you to look throught and compare to video which I will provide from my own tests here! 

here is a link to the video 

Okey so lets get starting, first moment that I want to underline happend at 1:22 where he doing deadly blow to necromancer with the dmg 1938, why exactly this moment? Firstly his first pvp at 25 sec of vide where done with bd dances and unfortunantely I dont have Bd to make a test with fire dance as well, why moment where he killing this necro and not others before? Because the first his PvP with necro was when hecro were having transfer Pain buff so it's hard for me to callulate dmg without this buff, where not when he kills EE? Because he did Critical x2 dmg of backstab so I didnt take this kill as well into account, after that he did again kill of same necro ( bcz that necro was ressurected and he did 2349 dmg, I dont take into account coz necro was without buffs)!!!! Okey so back to 1:22 I choose this moment cos he DID deadlyblow with 1938 dmg on necro ( 100% necro was without transfer pain ) With having this buffs : Chant of rage I woudnt take all other buffs cos everybody ehre understand that P attack buffs like warrior dance and Might didnt infulacne on daggerz skillz Only slightly( like 20-30 dmg and it's really hard to notice cos dmg from skillz not same it's jumping around 100 all time ) I ALSO POINT THAT HIS skill Vicus STANCE and this moment was off....

Now I upload video that I did where we have My Threausre hunter lvl 74!!! with Might DW haste and Vicious stance on doing a backstab to PP ( my box ) lvl 57 with only Buff SHIELD 

I WANT TO UNDERLINE that here I am th 74 lvl when takezo were 62 and mY lvl of power skill like in 1500 More than his and Im doing the Dmg on target that 17 LVLs lower than ME!!!! and My dmg was bigger only for 672!!!! I ALSO AGAIN POINT THAT TAKEZO did 1938 without HAVING VICIOUs stance on and MY VICIos stance Lvl 20 and give 600 More critical Dmg !!! SO if takezo did that dmg with vicious stance on it would be like 2200 dmg.... Oh yea and as y can see pp has avadon robe set  

Okey lets continue look at the moment 1:27 where takezo doing hit at enemt BP ( I think so ) with dmg 1718 So we can see here dmg a bit lower than before, reasons could be a lot like No zerk buff on target or + avadon set and etc... anyway it doesnt change the fact that dmg is still pretty good with only one DW lvl 3 buff and even no vicious stance !! Now I give you link where Im doing all the same things that before but without Civious stance passive on me 

OKEY NOw compare 1718 vs my 2169 When he did it On 63 vs approximtely his lvls enenmys like +-5 lvls and I did it on 74 on target that 17 lvl lower than mE!!! I think i dont need to add something more it's obvius that dmg here of blows working Uncorrect!!!

I woudnt take other moment in this PvP where he hits robe cos mostly they are different like he has fire dance on off or he has no bbufs at all basicly in all his pvp VERsus RObe he doing 2k  or 2.2k Dmg with vicus stance and no fire dance and about 3k dmg with fire dance ON.... Y can watch the video till end and see it 

Now second one thing Dmg of skillz on hEAVY ARMOR this sh1t I want to say working here on 250% WRONG and now let me prove you this !!!!

Okey back to the video from takezo Now I want you all look at the moment 3:43 when he doing hits go eveny gladiator, so what we see? Gladi +- his lvl getting 1698 dmg from back from takezo when he has chante of rage and Vicious stance on Again I dont take into account buffs that boosting P atack or P def or M def or resist to mental attack cos they are doing nothing to dmg of TH blows!!! AND NOW LOOK at this video Where I with my TH 74 LVL with Might Haste and DW + vicious stance on doing back on BD 60 lvl ( In fp set + zubei boots gloves ) backstab..... THE dmg here is 1675 this is CRAZYY Im crying Really Wtf wrong with daggers here IF after this Y tell me everything is ok y probably live in other realm!!!!!

I wont to say that at video from takezo it was 1,5 patch + no epic on him ( he  get AQ but later ) and GK server 

OKey Im dont for now I can also give a link for more videos of takezo if y wish but it would be later now Im waiting for respons Ppl thought and of course adminitration answear 

 

[skumbre 19]

As it was said before dagger fix will be done after 2.0

[Cyane 230]

the test on bd and the comparison with the dmg on gladiator is incorrect since both sws and bd have critical dmg reduction passives from their knight heavy armor masteries.

Then the difference in levels.. one cant just assume that you should do higher dmg to a 60 lvl target with 1k p.def Vs a target of your level with that same p.def. I mean, not sure if "character level" by itself has something to do with blow dmg

[MoDoy 1772]

only thing i can say is that its nice u tried, however u cannot do this kinds of reports while comparing different levels, different classes, different equip, hell u dont even know what buffs the enemy had (maybe they didnt even have shield buff, u cannot know that)

what can i say, i honestly feel like dmg on heavy armor users (especially tanks) works different than on official, however its not so easy to find proofs (by that i mean the moments i could exactly copy setups of characters and show its wrong), so probably will dig deeeeeeeeeeeeep once i am dagger for this, however dmg on light/robes doesnt feel that off tbh

1 hour ago, Dancerok said:

I wont to say that at video from takezo it was 1,5 patch + no epic on him ( he  get AQ but later ) and GK server 

just by saying this u pretty much lost the trust in the post u made, because he actually does have AQ on the video, he opened inventory many times and he had it even in the part of video u used your assumptions on, so thats pretty much from my side

 

[Rizos 1487]

I like the fact that you made some test etc but in my opinion, to prove that anything is wrong with dagger dmg you need to use same conditions here as on gran kain (same lvl, same buffs , same items and class) and prove that dmg is different. For example you cant  use bd instead of glad, because bd has different hvy armor mastery, and test when you have vicious stance and 74 lvl while guy on movie has 63 and no vicious stance, doesnt provide any usefull information, unless your dmg on 74 lvl would be same or lower. Try to make new test and copy conditions from gran kain and compare dmg.

[Setzer 171]

One thing strange is that sometimes i use deadly blow and it says Critical, but the damage is 1. And it started to happen even more when i got closer to the mob lvl (maybe this last part is just coicidence). But i agree that maybe the damage of daggers skills must be reviewed. Good job.

[MoDoy 1772]

14 minutes ago, Setzer said:

One thing strange is that sometimes i use deadly blow and it says Critical, but the damage is 1. And it started to happen even more when i got closer to the mob lvl (maybe this last part is just coicidence). But i agree that maybe the damage of daggers skills must be reviewed. Good job.

when u use blow, its always critical, however it got probably fully blocked, thus 1 dmg

[Poseidon 452]

i do the same dmg like takezo on his 60-ties. 

i had 12 str and was w/o aq.

that ee was in light set as i understand, thats why less dmg.

atm dmg is fine, problem is with the str and dex influence only.

imho, ofc.

 

 

[Dancerok 21]

1 hour ago, Poseidon said:

i do the same dmg like takezo on his 60-ties. 

i had 12 str and was w/o aq.

that ee was in light set as i understand, thats why less dmg.

atm dmg is fine, problem is with the str and dex influence only.

imho, ofc.

 

 

your max dmg was 2k meanwhile I do same dmg on mages with 74 lvl .... Y have AQ in this video? 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Dancerok

[Dancerok 21]

2 hours ago, Rizos said:

I like the fact that you made some test etc but in my opinion, to prove that anything is wrong with dagger dmg you need to use same conditions here as on gran kain (same lvl, same buffs , same items and class) and prove that dmg is different. For example you cant  use bd instead of glad, because bd has different hvy armor mastery, and test when you have vicious stance and 74 lvl while guy on movie has 63 and no vicious stance, doesnt provide any usefull information, unless your dmg on 74 lvl would be same or lower. Try to make new test and copy conditions from gran kain and compare dmg.

The meain thig I tried to show y is that my skill much higher lvl than takezo was and has much more power so according to logic I has to give more dmg than he... but he has AQ lvl 3 what I didn't notice tbh

[Dancerok 21]

2 hours ago, MoDoy said:

only thing i can say is that its nice u tried, however u cannot do this kinds of reports while comparing different levels, different classes, different equip, hell u dont even know what buffs the enemy had (maybe they didnt even have shield buff, u cannot know that)

what can i say, i honestly feel like dmg on heavy armor users (especially tanks) works different than on official, however its not so easy to find proofs (by that i mean the moments i could exactly copy setups of characters and show its wrong), so probably will dig deeeeeeeeeeeeep once i am dagger for this, however dmg on light/robes doesnt feel that off tbh

just by saying this u pretty much lost the trust in the post u made, because he actually does have AQ on the video, he opened inventory many times and he had it even in the part of video u used your assumptions on, so thats pretty much from my side

 

About buffs Im pretty sure they was with only pp or ol buffs cos on video I can't see bd or sws yes it's not 100% but let's say honestly we all realize that 75% that there was no bd or sws on mages. 

One more thing I was doing on you when y was solo ganging as y remember with vicus stance + bd dance and dw lvl 3 how much?? 2.2k? really? Im sure takezo at this lvl on Gk in 1.5 patch will do 3k and I don't mention aq cos with aq it would be probably 3.3 

[Dancerok 21]

Also I can add I'm not sure in this info but as y all know in 2.0 we getting runes. So look overhere

Othal rune

Chance of critical attack

+75

+100

+125

+150

+175

+200

+225

+250

+275

+300

+325

+350

+375

Power of critical attacks . Att.

+20

+97

+114

+131

+148

+165

+182

+199

+216

+233

+251

+268

+285

 

Here is Othal rune( info taken from https://l2central.info/classic/Особые_свойства ) which as we can see gives to Critical power dmg 20 97 114 and so on, I was thinking that this dmg is stable which means what number y see same dmg y will get in attack, but I heared that this dmg is actually counting in % so right will be to say 20% 97% 114% till 285% which enourmsly changing the dmg for example of same backstab. Basic example if normal dmg of back let's say 2k with othel rune lvl 1 it has to be on 20% more which means dmg would be 2,400. But if it's not so dmg would be boosted only for 2020.... So I wounder who know what is truth? How to calculate it? 

[Dancerok 21]

2 hours ago, Cyane said:

the test on bd and the comparison with the dmg on gladiator is incorrect since both sws and bd have critical dmg reduction passives from their knight heavy armor masteries.

Then the difference in levels.. one cant just assume that you should do higher dmg to a 60 lvl target with 1k p.def Vs a target of your level with that same p.def. I mean, not sure if "character level" by itself has something to do with blow dmg

I know about difference in lvls If I was same as Takezoo my dmg was fine, that's why I did this post cos Im higher lvl higher lvl of skill Higher power of skill Higher dmg that he do must be 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Dancerok

[MoDoy 1772]

1 minute ago, Dancerok said:

About buffs Im pretty sure they was with only pp or ol buffs cos on video I can't see bd or sws yes it's not 100% but let's say honestly we all realize that 75% that there was no bd or sws on mages. 

once again, wrong, u can see enemy BD on the video, especially part u are assuming all these things, and if they had BD which u didnt notice, why couldnt they have sws pulling mobs or hidden somewhere in trees?

12 minutes ago, Dancerok said:

One more thing I was doing on you when y was solo ganging as y remember with vicus stance + bd dance and dw lvl 3 how much?? 2.2k? really? Im sure takezo at this lvl on Gk in 1.5 patch will do 3k and I don't mention aq cos with aq it would be probably 3.3 

why do u think your normal dmg should be over 3k on everything which moves? look at straight first clip he put there, solo guy, takezo had dance of fire, vicious stance, AQ lvl 3 and he did to him only 2.3k dmg, also if u check his later movies from higher lvl (not one when he was hero), u still see him doing 1.8-2k to light/robe users, its just those flashy moments they usually use in those kind of movies, when it leaves your jaw open

3 minutes ago, Dancerok said:

I know about difference in lvls If I was same as Takezoo my dmg was fine, that's why I did this post cos Im higher lvl higher lvl of skill Higher power of skill Higher dmg that he do must be 

i can tell u dmg of my double shot didnt change since lvl 60, i still make 1.5k/3k with it

 

as i said, those "proofs" u brought so far are really faaaar from proving anything

[Rizos 1487]

18 minutes ago, Dancerok said:

Also I can add I'm not sure in this info but as y all know in 2.0 we getting runes. So look overhere

Othal rune

Chance of critical attack

+75

+100

+125

+150

+175

+200

+225

+250

+275

+300

+325

+350

+375

Power of critical attacks . Att.

+20

+97

+114

+131

+148

+165

+182

+199

+216

+233

+251

+268

+285

 

Here is Othal rune( info taken from https://l2central.info/classic/Особые_свойства ) which as we can see gives to Critical power dmg 20 97 114 and so on, I was thinking that this dmg is stable which means what number y see same dmg y will get in attack, but I heared that this dmg is actually counting in % so right will be to say 20% 97% 114% till 285% which enourmsly changing the dmg for example of same backstab. Basic example if normal dmg of back let's say 2k with othel rune lvl 1 it has to be on 20% more which means dmg would be 2,400. But if it's not so dmg would be boosted only for 2020.... So I wounder who know what is truth? How to calculate it? 

Othel rune works same as vicious stance, if you get 200 critical dmg from othel rune its working same as if you would have 200 more power on vicious stance

About dmg proofs again. If smth is wrong about dagger dmg i would search it on full buff (buffs might scale wrong with blow dmg), compare dmg vs classes with crit dmg reduction (tanks/bards) - there might be some kind of bug cos i see insanely high dmg from daggers to tanks on gran kain.

Also if you believe dagger dmg is wrong best proof is to take same lvl, gear, buffs dagger here as on some old 1.5 grankain stream, find moment when guy stab mob wuthout debufs and compare dmg to our server. That would be great test giving 99% cartain info ( i used same kind of proof when i tried to prove that fatal counter dmg was wrong)

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Rizos

[Dancerok 21]

2 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

once again, wrong, u can see enemy BD on the video, especially part u are assuming all these things, and if they had BD which u didnt notice, why couldnt they have sws pulling mobs or hidden somewhere in trees?

why do u think your normal dmg should be over 3k on everything which moves? look at straight first clip he put there, solo guy, takezo had dance of fire, vicious stance, AQ lvl 3 and he did to him only 2.3k dmg, also if u check his later movies from higher lvl (not one when he was hero), u still see him doing 1.8-2k to light/robe users, its just those flashy moments they usually use in those kind of movies, when it leaves your jaw open

i can tell u dmg of my double shot didnt change since lvl 60, i still make 1.5k/3k with it

 

as i said, those "proofs" u brought so far are really faaaar from proving anything

I thought bd was with takezo anyway bd doesn't give P def and Im really doubt that there was any sws, however it could be...

The first cleip were he did low dmg to mage, I also were woundered why it is so low, tbh I dunno the reason, it could be anything lvl overenchant some buff ...

[MoDoy 1772]

Just now, Dancerok said:

The first cleip were he did low dmg to mage, I also were woundered why it is so low, tbh I dunno the reason, it could be anything lvl overenchant some buff ...

exactly, and couldnt those arguments be said by any of his actions in the video? as like "maybe that guy didnt have buffs, thats why so high dmg, maybe he was way lower lvl", all those are just assumptions, which are not even compared with same conditions on our server

[Dancerok 21]

1 minute ago, Rizos said:

Othel rune works same ad vicious stance, if you get 200 critical dmg from othel rune its working same as if you would have 200 more power on vicious stance

About dmg proofs again. If smth is wrong about dagger dmg i would search it on full buff (buffs might scale wrong with blow dmg), compare dmg vs classes with crit dmg reduction (tanks/bards) - there might be some kind of bug cos i see insanely high dmg from daggers to tanks on gran kain.

Also if you believe dagger dmg is wrong best proof is to take same lvl, gear, buffs dagger here as on some old 1.5 grankain stream, find moment when guy stab mob wuthout debufs and compare dmg to our server. That would be great test giving 99% cartain info ( i used same kind of proof when i tried to prove that fatal counter dmg was wrong)

 

if it is like this I dunno how on GK daggers doing so high dmg right now 

 

[Rizos 1487]

Its true that they make insane dmg and im also wondering how, but they have different chronicle so you cant compare it to our server, as i said best proof is dmg vs mob with same conditions on both servers

Edited May 9, 2017 by Rizos

[Dancerok 21]

look at this dmg 3-4k he is 76 he has on 50 power more from back for sure the reason not in lvl ? what Buffs? It seems to me same buffs no even COV Dunno about the one which looks like fruits, AQ? I doubt 10% not 50% so what could be if otha; rune as y said give quite low boost 

[Dancerok 21]

I this video was 2.0 why? Because his speed in hide I notice decreased on 30% meanwhile 2.5 they cancel speed decreasing 

[Dancerok 21]

In patch notes of Saviors I didn't found anything about dagger boost of dmg, So I dunno why he doing so good dmg only with 1 dw lvl 3 and yes if someone think that transforamtion gives critical dmg y wrong I can give y a link where skill stats describe

 

[Rizos 1487]

1 minute ago, Dancerok said:

I this video was 2.0 why? Because his speed in hide I notice decreased on 30% meanwhile 2.5 they cancel speed decreasing 

Yes but we have 1.5. Also blows power change on 2.0 i think ( lf @San0 confirm)

[Dancerok 21]

 

Just now, Rizos said:

Yes but we have 1.5. Also blows power change on 2.0 i think ( lf @San0 confirm)

Well than it's possible but I can't find any official proves of this 

[Rizos 1487]

Im not saying dagger dmg here is correct for sure ( it might be wrong) Im just saying that you bring bad proofs, try to find smth better. Im telling you pve stream from 1.5 can be best source