horror vs mental shield

[MoDoy 1772]

- Mental Shield buff effect both from NPC and chars values was tuned up to better match the official values:

• lvl1 - 20%
• lvl2 - 30%
• lvl3 - 40%
• lvl4 - 50%
• Resists to Hold/Sleep/Fear/Mental Attacks.

Yet please take care of Horror, test, revise, remember on Olympiad theres no Mental Shield.

 

​on olys prepare for this to happen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5on_rBt0o8

i keep saying the horror skill is working with the normal chances as it should. problm here might be from mental shield but we will have btter picture about it after tomorrow mental shield changes.

​yes, ofc with no mental shield/resist shock pretty much everything lands, thats why they introduced the debuff talismans, which give u some chance to outplay enemy, but its bullsh1t when someone can fear lock u with 90% chance (and nothing could lower it), when there are aggresive mobs everywhere, that just smells like dropping items, thats what was really big problem

[Arcanum 312]

https://4gameforum.com/threads/627211/

1. Fear is not the only reason why Necromancer classes win in Olympiad.
It is mainly caused by 'Curse Gloom' skill. Necromancer can use 'Curse Gloom' skill to decrease opponent's resistance, so opponent can be easily defeated. It is not a skill problem, just Necromancer class is designed like this.

2. Some Classes can be much stronger in 1:1 PvP (as Olympiad).
However, we cannot fix it every time. If we make a patch to downgrade Necromancer classes, then some other classes will occupy this strongest position. Moreover, to downgrade to specific skill or class isn't the best way to solve this. 

3. It is too hard to balance all classes. By classes basic features design, some classes can have advantages in specific content. It may be solved naturally by persistent updates.

 

it's official: koreans have no fucking clue about the meaning of "balance".

talismans are not a viable solution to the problem anyway, especially when they come with a high price, they're not permament, and they have long cds/short duration. that's just the lazy way to trying solve the problem.

sadly, the game was overall more balanced back in interlude times than in classic.

there were still some classes that had advantages over others, but at least those weren't as strong as they are in this chronicle. fear wasn't a joke like it is now, and it was only a secondary factor.

[MoDoy 1772]

sadly, the game was overall more balanced back in interlude times than in classic.

there were still some classes that had advantages over others, but at least those weren't as strong as they are in this chronicle. fear wasn't a joke like it is now, and it was only a secondary factor.

​actually, i am pretty sure there are some classes which could beat DA in some occassions, however what classes could beat PP/ES back in interlude in olympiad?

also this koreans are just trolling, "curse gloom" is main reason they win in oly  

[Rizos 1487]

Fear doesnt matter. The gloom is the factor!!! If not gloom necro would be trash on oly! Didnt u know guys? Who cares about fear? 

[datplays 191]

Well we could do alot about this tbh. But ppl can't decide if they want custom changes to balance or retail like.

It's not a big afford to decrease chance to 70-80% fear instead of 95%, still 70-80% gonna be pitty, afording alot of luck to resist within 20-30% so nobody would be hurt, well... exacly, nobody will be hurt from good players, the noobs gonna hurr durr u nerfed to 80% i want it retail or im gonna cry on forum forever.

But thats the main problem that GMs re afraid of to do anything which will improve fun instead of keeping Koreans shit, to listen moaning of noobs that play specific char coz its op.

Almost every server thats not having in title "retail like Lineage 2 classic server" which i though we re not one of them not so far ago - they do atleast little steps to balance some aspects that Koreans re not aware of, and u can easy find it on their patch notes somewhere.

 

[MoDoy 1772]

Well we could do alot about this tbh. But ppl can't decide if they want custom changes to balance or retail like.

It's not a big afford to decrease chance to 70-80% fear instead of 95%, still 70-80% gonna be pitty, afording alot of luck to resist within 20-30% so nobody would be hurt, well... exacly, nobody will be hurt from good players, the noobs gonna hurr durr u nerfed to 80% i want it retail or im gonna cry on forum forever.

But thats the main problem that GMs re afraid of to do anything which will improve fun instead of keeping Koreans shit, to listen moaning of noobs that play specific char coz its op.

Almost every server thats not having in title "retail like Lineage 2 classic server" which i though we re not one of them not so far ago - they do atleast little steps to balance some aspects that Koreans re not aware of, and u can easy find it on their patch notes somewhere.

 

​u know they actually balance things in korea? its just different kind of balancing, they dont touch classes, instead they give u p2w candies, fruits and who knows what more, which gives u certain resists, pvp dmg reduction etc.

however balancing classes is not even close to be as easy as "make it 80%, its still good but it doesnt hurt pro players", no, thats not how u do it

[datplays 191]

u guys re good at it, i would listen suggestions then how to make it better, if my point of wiev is not good, ofc except p2w candies

[MoDoy 1772]

so some tests were made (every 2 characters were apart of max 2 lvls)

horror vs mental =  ~56%  (which is really close to official test)
WC fear vs no mental = ~50% land rate
WC fear vs mental = ~28% land rate
WC sleep vs no mental = ~90% land rate
WC sleep vs mental = ~20% land rate
trick vs mental = ~16% land rate
switch vs no mental = ~80% land rate
switch vs mental = ~25% land rate

these are just orientation numbers, we tested properly just horror (was main concern for this change) with 100 repetitions, others were either 30 or 50 (and we didnt continue when we saw its no point to test trick/switch vs mental more with that land rate)

so looks like the mental shield is working fine for fears, however its kinda broken for others one? (wanted to test root from SE on mental, but thats pain in the ass coz u cannot root lock someone, so u have to wait 30 sec after each root ;x)

PS: (also some ppl were asking about RESIST SHOCK, not protecting enough, tested it on archer vs archer (target was 2 lvls higher, so by off tests base land rate should be 92%, we got ~90% [27/30], and with RS lvl 4 its ~50% [35/72], however thats because i was unlucky in last duel, before it it was [30/59], so i would say its pretty close to official number once again)

[Arcanum 312]

koreans usually tend to "balance" classes in their games based on overall group play, not based on single classes. the only exception to this rule is probably BladeAndSoul, but that's it.

they can't be bothered with actually working to improve pvp balance for every class simply because they can just make new items and pretend they'll fix the issue. it's easier, probably faster, and if there's a cash shop involved, even better( for them ).

JP classic right now is the perfect example of P2W. and it's even free to play( with region lock ).

[Rizos 1487]

looks like sleep/trick/switch is bugged on mental shield (mental shield is too strong vs these debufs). Root not tested, Fear works fine on both wc and da

[BlackJack 574]

42/100 no MS same level 70 fear vs level 70 char

21/100 with MS same conditions

if it stays like that i want free transfer to another char or im quitting.

[Rizos 1487]

find necro fear land rate from offi. I dunno exact chance on offi but im sure its not 90%. I would bet for around 50% actually. So no point to cry until u prove its bugged

[BlackJack 574]

find necro fear land rate from offi. I dunno exact chance on offi but im sure its not 90%. I would bet for around 50% actually. So no point to cry until u prove its bugged

​ I coudln't care less if its bugged or not , i created my char under the understanding that debuffs actually play a role on this server and it's not a mindless damage spam fest in pvp. When debuffs work 20% of the time, according to my tests, debuffs become pointless in most pvp scenarios and it's better to just spam damage. Making the game much less skillful and a dull boring test.

I told you and even argued with you on TS that it's a joke to follow some official stuff, especially if they are completely broken as 5k fatal counters on robe users when the archer is on full hp. By the way this server hasn't followed official stuff since it's release to this day. Do you see any EWC's in shop? Cuze i dont. WHY? because it makes the game better. If they release spammable cp pots in official for 5k cp w/o CD would you want it to be implemented here just because? Also it's not my fucking job and neither is your to balance the game for the admins.

[MoDoy 1772]

find necro fear land rate from offi. I dunno exact chance on offi but im sure its not 90%. I would bet for around 50% actually. So no point to cry until u prove its bugged

​ I coudln't care less if its bugged or not , i created my char under the understanding that debuffs actually play a role on this server and it's not a mindless damage spam fest in pvp. When debuffs work 20% of the time, according to my tests, debuffs become pointless in most pvp scenarios and it's better to just spam damage. Making the game much less skillful and a dull boring test.

I told you and even argued with you on TS that it's a joke to follow some official stuff, especially if they are completely broken as 5k fatal counters on robe users when the archer is on full hp. By the way this server hasn't followed official stuff since it's release to this day. Do you see any EWC's in shop? Cuze i dont. WHY? because it makes the game better. If they release spammable cp pots in official for 5k cp w/o CD would you want it to be implemented here just because? Also it's not my fucking job and neither is your to balance the game for the admins.

​exactly, its not our job, its neither your job, its ncsoft job, so find that fear works different on official, make report and balance it

also this 5k dmg to robes = 2.5k dmg to necromancer, which is roughly +- half of your cp, too OP i guess

i am not saying necro fear works like on official now, but should be showed in what way its  bugged to fix it 

[BlackJack 574]

find necro fear land rate from offi. I dunno exact chance on offi but im sure its not 90%. I would bet for around 50% actually. So no point to cry until u prove its bugged

​ I coudln't care less if its bugged or not , i created my char under the understanding that debuffs actually play a role on this server and it's not a mindless damage spam fest in pvp. When debuffs work 20% of the time, according to my tests, debuffs become pointless in most pvp scenarios and it's better to just spam damage. Making the game much less skillful and a dull boring test.

I told you and even argued with you on TS that it's a joke to follow some official stuff, especially if they are completely broken as 5k fatal counters on robe users when the archer is on full hp. By the way this server hasn't followed official stuff since it's release to this day. Do you see any EWC's in shop? Cuze i dont. WHY? because it makes the game better. If they release spammable cp pots in official for 5k cp w/o CD would you want it to be implemented here just because? Also it's not my fucking job and neither is your to balance the game for the admins.

​exactly, its not our job, its neither your job, its ncsoft job, so find that fear works different on official, make report and balance it

also this 5k dmg to robes = 2.5k dmg to necromancer, which is roughly +- half of your cp, too OP i guess

i am not saying necro fear works like on official now, but should be showed in what way its  bugged to fix it 

​1271 cp at lvl 71 pls modoy fuck off.

[Rizos 1487]

find necro fear land rate from offi. I dunno exact chance on offi but im sure its not 90%. I would bet for around 50% actually. So no point to cry until u prove its bugged

​ I coudln't care less if its bugged or not , i created my char under the understanding that debuffs actually play a role on this server and it's not a mindless damage spam fest in pvp. When debuffs work 20% of the time, according to my tests, debuffs become pointless in most pvp scenarios and it's better to just spam damage. Making the game much less skillful and a dull boring test.

I told you and even argued with you on TS that it's a joke to follow some official stuff, especially if they are completely broken as 5k fatal counters on robe users when the archer is on full hp. By the way this server hasn't followed official stuff since it's release to this day. Do you see any EWC's in shop? Cuze i dont. WHY? because it makes the game better. If they release spammable cp pots in official for 5k cp w/o CD would you want it to be implemented here just because? Also it's not my fucking job and neither is your to balance the game for the admins.

​https://4gameforum.com/threads/601448/

About FC i do 3,5k to DEe on full hp and 1770+1770 to karmian set sindicate necro when we are both on full buff so dunno what ur talking about, also i get 4k dmg m crit from dee while he can cast 2 spells in time i cast fc. If u found bug on necro fear then just make bug report just like every1 else does, instead of making drama. I played with bugged fc for 1 year and didnt beg any1 to change my class for free

Also im gonna defend server cos the guys did good job lately, fixed many things, just check update thread. They tried to fix mental, they fixed da fear on it sad;y fkd up some othe rthings by mistake, just give em time like 1 week, report what requires fix and wait, stop being rude without reason, It doesnt help them in any way.

Look how many bugs they fixed in last 20 days of january and u still complain...

 

[fishfood 92]

People wanted Fatal counter to be nerfed since it is so strong on official. Then it stayed that way for months until people cried to fix it like official. So now they see how strong it really is again. In my honest opinion we should strive to be as close to retail as we can get, people get turned off with "custom balancing" even if it is for better or worse. If it was up to me summoners wouldn't have buff pets, those things are really op for any mage/archer group.

TL;DR stay as close to official as we can, then we can complain @ ncsoft like everyone else.

[MoDoy 1772]

People wanted Fatal counter to be nerfed since it is so strong on official. Then it stayed that way for months until people cried to fix it like official. So now they see how strong it really is again. In my honest opinion we should strive to be as close to retail as we can get, people get turned off with "custom balancing" even if it is for better or worse. If it was up to me summoners wouldn't have buff pets, those things are really op for any mage/archer group.

TL;DR stay as close to official as we can, then we can complain @ ncsoft like everyone else.

​u are wrong, FC has never worked like on official here, it was totally broken (literally like 100 dmg) when it was changed to the state as it was like 1 week ago (50% dmg and like 20% chance to crit), so unless some ppl checked some videos, they wouldnt even know how it works

however ofc it looks insane when u check some morrow/exaltme/thanatos frapses, but now consider i had to generate 10 500 dmg with my SR to some ROK sps, AND even then he didnt die (had to do 1 more double shot for 3k crit), and now imagine necro with that kind of stats, u need to do double of that (coz of TPs), yep, it was pretty impossible to kill it before with archers, coz they had absolutely 0 burst dmg, when i checked some of my frapses, awakendemon double shot took 1/4 of our necros CP, tell me how exactly are u suppose to kill that?

to BlackJack, last time i checked u had castle CP bonus, but if u dont want to count that, lets see, u still would have like 4-5k cp+hp pool on necro, so for that PR needs to generate 9-10k dmg, for that he needs to be at very low HP (lets say 700 HP), and that leaves him with like 1900 HP+CP pool, and i am pretty sure necro can do that dmg in 2 shots (or even 1 shot with crit, which is not rarity at all) 

[BlackJack 574]

find necro fear land rate from offi. I dunno exact chance on offi but im sure its not 90%. I would bet for around 50% actually. So no point to cry until u prove its bugged

​ I coudln't care less if its bugged or not , i created my char under the understanding that debuffs actually play a role on this server and it's not a mindless damage spam fest in pvp. When debuffs work 20% of the time, according to my tests, debuffs become pointless in most pvp scenarios and it's better to just spam damage. Making the game much less skillful and a dull boring test.

I told you and even argued with you on TS that it's a joke to follow some official stuff, especially if they are completely broken as 5k fatal counters on robe users when the archer is on full hp. By the way this server hasn't followed official stuff since it's release to this day. Do you see any EWC's in shop? Cuze i dont. WHY? because it makes the game better. If they release spammable cp pots in official for 5k cp w/o CD would you want it to be implemented here just because? Also it's not my fucking job and neither is your to balance the game for the admins.

​https://4gameforum.com/threads/601448/

​this thread literally has nothing relevant, because the tests are on -5 and -15 chars.

[Rizos 1487]

so find better proof, i wanted to help u but u deny it, i wont care bout ur class anymore, not my char not my problem

[BlackJack 574]

so find better proof, i wanted to help u but u deny it, i wont care bout ur class anymore, not my char not my problem

Help me how? What you linked is irrelevant, i haven't seen any evidence on what grounds the admins randomly decided to fuck up debuffs. Necro fear already ~40-50% land rate vs mental, only DA fear had really high % with mental. So melees now have better land rate on CC and 3x the hp , how am i supposed to defend myself from a melee that crits me for 1/2 of hy hp with 20% fear?

[Rizos 1487]

Why do u talk "how to figth vs meele" "how to fear" etc. Talk about what is bugged lol, cos if smth is bugged thats the problem, not asking for tactics how to pvp lol :D. Its like i ask MAAAAAAAAN WhAT CAN I DO VS GLADI, HE USE UE SO I CANT FC, HE USE LIONHEART SO I CANT CC, HE HAS DASH SO I CANT RUN, HE HAS RANGED STUN AND 4X MORE HP+CP, HOW TO PLAY HOW TO LIVE SANO PLZZZZZZ HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP. MY STUN LAND WITH 5% CHANCE ON GLADI, GLADI STUN LAND WITH 20X BIGGER CHANCE, FC AVOIDED 40% CHANCE. PLZ CHANGE MY CLASS FOR FREEEEEEEEE

Focus on debuf topic plz, dont post offtopic bullsh1t about l2 balance lol

p.s i understand ur point about low chance of fear, just focus on proving how it works on offi instead of doing such posts plz if u wanna change anything

[BlackJack 574]

 

p.s i understand ur point about low chance of fear, just focus on proving how it works on offi instead of doing such posts plz if u wanna change anything

​you still dont get my point, not everything should work the way it works on official. I already made this point, but people denied it since it was not mechanics. But actually there is mechanics such as VR that are custom made here for balance reasons.

[BlackJack 574]

People wanted Fatal counter to be nerfed since it is so strong on official. Then it stayed that way for months until people cried to fix it like official. So now they see how strong it really is again. In my honest opinion we should strive to be as close to retail as we can get, people get turned off with "custom balancing" even if it is for better or worse. If it was up to me summoners wouldn't have buff pets, those things are really op for any mage/archer group.

TL;DR stay as close to official as we can, then we can complain @ ncsoft like everyone else.

to BlackJack, last time i checked u had castle CP bonus, but if u dont want to count that, lets see, u still would have like 4-5k cp+hp pool on necro, so for that PR needs to generate 9-10k dmg, for that he needs to be at very low HP (lets say 700 HP), and that leaves him with like 1900 HP+CP pool, and i am pretty sure necro can do that dmg in 2 shots (or even 1 shot with crit, which is not rarity at all) 

​First of all necro has 2400 base hp with BOTB 3200. not 4-5k. Second of all are you seriously trying to make the point that the game should be balanced around having castle CP? If you are , I am done, since you a complete hypocrite  and last but not least in importance necro is the tankiest caster. What about others? Also why don't you stick to a point instead of derailing anything im trying to say in another direction so it better fits the point you are trying to argue.

[MoDoy 1772]

People wanted Fatal counter to be nerfed since it is so strong on official. Then it stayed that way for months until people cried to fix it like official. So now they see how strong it really is again. In my honest opinion we should strive to be as close to retail as we can get, people get turned off with "custom balancing" even if it is for better or worse. If it was up to me summoners wouldn't have buff pets, those things are really op for any mage/archer group.

TL;DR stay as close to official as we can, then we can complain @ ncsoft like everyone else.

to BlackJack, last time i checked u had castle CP bonus, but if u dont want to count that, lets see, u still would have like 4-5k cp+hp pool on necro, so for that PR needs to generate 9-10k dmg, for that he needs to be at very low HP (lets say 700 HP), and that leaves him with like 1900 HP+CP pool, and i am pretty sure necro can do that dmg in 2 shots (or even 1 shot with crit, which is not rarity at all) 

​First of all necro has 2400 base hp with BOTB 3200. not 4-5k. Second of all are you seriously trying to make the point that the game should be balanced around having castle CP? If you are , I am done, since you a complete hypocrite  and last but not least in importance necro is the tankiest caster. What about others? Also why don't you stick to a point instead of derailing anything im trying to say in another direction so it better fits the point you are trying to argue.

​i gave u example of not having castle CP bonus, also i said 4-5k CP+HP pool, which by your counting 1271 CP + 3200 HP = 4471 HP+CP pool, so i was correct

its funny that u try to avoid using necro as example because its tankiest, then lets use also another archer and dmg it makes, or? FC is op in solo gangs, not in mass pvps or biggers cale pvp (even in 18vs18 its not so good anymore)

also in previous post i told u i pvped vs ROK sps and even 10 500 dmg wasnt enough to kill him (next crit double shot killed him), so even FC on very low HP wouldnt kill him, because it makes 9-10k