deathangel

Gemstones and Cloths in Dion are too expensive

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Having A Gemstones that are worth 7kk each completely breaks the mechanics of the game.

It's impossible to get A-grade gear, except for players who farm epic bosses. This leads to no difference between having levels 52 and 61, since it's much cheaper and better to buy +6 B sets. Of course, there are also +6 A sets, but only a few people have them.

This issue cascades further. It completely breaks the crafting of A-grade gear. No one would spend 600kk on Gemstones to craft A-grade weapons with only a 60% success chance. The weapon itself costs less. Additionally, bounty hunters become completely useless at high levels since no one needs A-grade recipes, except maybe a few that require B-grade gems.

This situation makes A-grade weapons mostly useless, as inserting a rune is never worth it. Even if you somehow craft the item or get it from a drop or a Raid Boss, you still have to obtain Cloths, which makes sets 20 times more expensive. This, in turn, leads to the strategy of enchanting sets to +6 and only then unpacking them.

I would suggest the following changes:

  1. Increase the drop rate of Gemstones by at least 10 times and distribute them among more mobs. A-grade Gemstones shouldn't cost 1000 times more than B-grade.
  2. Add the ability to spoil them or obtain them from a quest.
  3. Reduce the number of Gemstones required to craft an item if the top options lead to imbalance.

I completely understand that A-grade gear is top-tier and should be expensive, but not to the degree where it is worth as much as tier-1 epic gear.

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13 hours ago, deathangel said:

Having A Gemstones that are worth 7kk each completely breaks the mechanics of the game.

It's impossible to get A-grade gear, except for players who farm epic bosses. This leads to no difference between having levels 52 and 61, since it's much cheaper and better to buy +6 B sets. Of course, there are also +6 A sets, but only a few people have them.

This issue cascades further. It completely breaks the crafting of A-grade gear. No one would spend 600kk on Gemstones to craft A-grade weapons with only a 60% success chance. The weapon itself costs less. Additionally, bounty hunters become completely useless at high levels since no one needs A-grade recipes, except maybe a few that require B-grade gems.

This situation makes A-grade weapons mostly useless, as inserting a rune is never worth it. Even if you somehow craft the item or get it from a drop or a Raid Boss, you still have to obtain Cloths, which makes sets 20 times more expensive. This, in turn, leads to the strategy of enchanting sets to +6 and only then unpacking them.

I would suggest the following changes:

  1. Increase the drop rate of Gemstones by at least 10 times and distribute them among more mobs. A-grade Gemstones shouldn't cost 1000 times more than B-grade.
  2. Add the ability to spoil them or obtain them from a quest.
  3. Reduce the number of Gemstones required to craft an item if the top options lead to imbalance.

I completely understand that A-grade gear is top-tier and should be expensive, but not to the degree where it is worth as much as tier-1 epic gear.

Hello. Did you consider Goddards changes about Gemstones A and Cloth Pieces? Because:
1) Gemstones where added to Goddard mobs.
2) Cloth Pieces where added to normal bosses in Goddard.

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14 minutes ago, Koll said:

Hello. Did you consider Goddards changes about Gemstones A and Cloth Pieces? Because:
1) Gemstones where added to Goddard mobs.
2) Cloth Pieces where added to normal bosses in Goddard.

I've been waiting for that patch in order to see if it changes anything. I would lean towards changes that decrease the cost of A gems at least to 1kk.

I anticipate the price would drop maximum to 5kk during next 2 month or would stay the same. Which is a meaningless change towards proper craft/grade mechanics. 

@Koll Which price do you think would be the fair for A gems?

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13 minutes ago, deathangel said:

I've been waiting for that patch in order to see if it changes anything. I would lean towards changes that decrease the cost of A gems at least to 1kk.

I anticipate the price would drop maximum to 5kk during next 2 month or would stay the same. Which is a meaningless change towards proper craft/grade mechanics. 

@Koll Which price do you think would be the fair for A gems?

Altar mobs, that will be available at stage 2, will have chance to drop Gemstones A. That change is not in affect because Goddard is at stage 1. Goddards normal bosses will have chance to drop 1-3 Cloth Piece. 

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56 minutes ago, Koll said:

Hello. Did you consider Goddards changes about Gemstones A and Cloth Pieces? Because:
1) Gemstones where added to Goddard mobs.
2) Cloth Pieces where added to normal bosses in Goddard.

I can understand that you eased the cloth pieces so that end game players with a less competitive side can also get access to the cloths.

Now let me introduce to you the perspective of catching up players. (yes, you have them, those who have started recently and planning competitive game)

Gem hunting was the best way to catch up to mid game and have some adena to try to reach some end game content. Yes, high selling price but also few places to do it without high end gear. Now what? 

Yes, A grade is by far the top set for now and it should be expensive. You can't farm A grade recipes without nice gear and it was always useless as raidboss farmers sold it complete by far lower prices. (TI experience)

What other resource would you suggest as a catch up way to reach good farm? Given the update is for end game players and also the a gem addition decreases the farm for catching up players.

I always remember that good economy was reached by high ends selling higher grade staff for mid players and mid players selling resources at a good price to high ends. I see the balance shifted.

 

 

13 hours ago, deathangel said:

Having A Gemstones that are worth 7kk each completely breaks the mechanics of the game.

It's impossible to get A-grade gear, except for players who farm epic bosses. This leads to no difference between having levels 52 and 61, since it's much cheaper and better to buy +6 B sets. Of course, there are also +6 A sets, but only a few people have them.

This issue cascades further. It completely breaks the crafting of A-grade gear. No one would spend 600kk on Gemstones to craft A-grade weapons with only a 60% success chance. The weapon itself costs less. Additionally, bounty hunters become completely useless at high levels since no one needs A-grade recipes, except maybe a few that require B-grade gems.

This situation makes A-grade weapons mostly useless, as inserting a rune is never worth it. Even if you somehow craft the item or get it from a drop or a Raid Boss, you still have to obtain Cloths, which makes sets 20 times more expensive. This, in turn, leads to the strategy of enchanting sets to +6 and only then unpacking them.

I would suggest the following changes:

  1. Increase the drop rate of Gemstones by at least 10 times and distribute them among more mobs. A-grade Gemstones shouldn't cost 1000 times more than B-grade.
  2. Add the ability to spoil them or obtain them from a quest.
  3. Reduce the number of Gemstones required to craft an item if the top options lead to imbalance.

I completely understand that A-grade gear is top-tier and should be expensive, but not to the degree where it is worth as much as tier-1 epic gear.

I also want Epics at lower price! And OE Weapon at lower price! Also, I want to enter game for 1 hour and be 82 in  a week! I am surprised admins followed this cry and added A-gems.
 

Edited by Xanaks

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5 minutes ago, Xanaks said:

I can understand that you eased the cloth pieces so that end game players with a less competitive side can also get access to the cloths.

Now let me introduce to you the perspective of catching up players. (yes, you have them, those who have started recently and planning competitive game)

Gem hunting was the best way to catch up to mid game and have some adena to try to reach some end game content. Yes, high selling price but also few places to do it without high end gear. Now what? 

Yes, A grade is by far the top set for now and it should be expensive. You can't farm A grade recipes without nice gear and it was always useless as raidboss farmers sold it complete by far lower prices. (TI experience)

What other resource would you suggest as a catch up way to reach good farm? Given the update is for end game players and also the a gem addition decreases the farm for catching up players.

 

 

I also want Epics at lower price! And OE Weapon at lower price! Also, I want to enter game for 1 hour and be 82 in  a week! I am surprised admins followed this cry and added A-gems.
 

I had several hours dialog with a group who where farming A gemstones and was controlling spots after our last change in mobs spawn. They fully explained what they farm, how they farm, how they drop mobs on other people who trying to farm there, how they also control TOI Energy of Insolence farm with friends. They where not "catching up" groups.

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3 minutes ago, Koll said:

I had several hours dialog with a group who where farming A gemstones and was controlling spots after our last change in mobs spawn. They fully explained what they farm, how they farm, how they drop mobs on other people who trying to farm them, how they also control TOI Energy of Insolence farm with friends. They where not "catching up" groups.

DI is not the only place to farm them, you know?

There are also TOI and controlling TOI and dropping mobs doesn't work so well there...  

I guess maybe you were not really trying to find catching up players, just a suggestion though

Controlling TOI Energy - in reality they have very little control. More like noise, given the price of the Energy.

Edited by Xanaks

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18 minutes ago, Xanaks said:

DI is not the only place to farm them, you know?

There are also TOI and controlling TOI and dropping mobs doesn't work so well there...  

I guess maybe you were not really trying to find catching up players, just a suggestion though

Controlling TOI Energy - in reality they have very little control. More like noise, given the price of the Energy.

Increase in drop chance of A grade parts + recipes should be compensated by increase in drop of required for craft items.

For farm you can check Life stones ( ~8kk / ~24kk / ~68kk ), Magical Tablets ( ~5kk ).

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24 minutes ago, Koll said:

Increase in drop chance of A grade parts + recipes should be compensated by increase in drop of required for craft items.

I can understand that, and the point is reasonable, just saying it creates a TI-like situation quicker as there are thinner chances for returning players to farm in the spirit of an open discussion and "suggestion" topic. Catching up is always more difficult, given you have players "dropping mobs and protecting farm spots". It is a strong mentality, but the reward should also be compensating. Decreasing gem prices will make battles less relevant. 

It is a bit like with epics, you created a situation where clans can retrieve epics if the epic is given according to the certain rule. I understand the point here again. However, there is always another side of the coin. It raises the prices of the limited epics in "freehold" as they are very few or you need to wait until the ruling top decides to quit and the rules suddenly do not work. (Brazilian players not like WuKong Haogu, it is exactly how epics go the "freehold" most of the time). Balance is crucial in this situation. 

However, the point is not about it: new catching-up players are not easily accepted by those playing groups because one side is on a free farm, so why would they need people? Another is low motivation, and when the big war starts because of the inflow of new catch-up players, they suddenly claim that they deserve it more than others or can easily buy it because they are old players. We have a situation where only catch-up players are primarily looking for those epics, and they are high in price again because you enforce the rule on the server prohibiting the sale of those items; again, it is a substantial hit for the new catch-up players.

I just provided the point from the new catch-up playing group here. Though some of your reasons are valid from your side, the legacy decisions that made it difficult for TI to acquire new players (even on the competitive side) are still valid. Given this context, gems with high prices and the ability to farm those with hard, difficult hours, but at least with the rewarding result in the end, would limit this situation again. The major question: What should we do so it doesn't take forever to catch up to a certain level?

Ultimately, the decision is always on your side, and your input is invaluable in shaping the future of the game.



 

Edited by Xanaks

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Facilitating the drop of Gem-A is a necessity, since as Xanaks said, it is simply unfeasible to try to craft an A-grade weapon, even jewelry and equipment in general.

What's the point of trying to craft a majestic ring using 3 Gem-A (each gem costs more than the ring itself), or a weapon that possibly won't even cover the crafting cost.

It's very unbalanced.

Not only that, but to this day I still can't understand why up to lvl 75 (farm LOA), it is possible to drop TOP weapons in the game by hunting normal monsters (is the chance minimal? Yes, but at least there is a chance).

However, after lvl 75 (GC farm and now Goddard), there's simply isn't any full drop, not even normal equips have a reasonable chance (not to mention that top items like mj circlet and armor don't drop from these mobs).

Please note that here on the Dion server the chance of even dropping boots and gloves is ridiculous compared to IT, if I dropped 5 full items to date it's a lot (I've already raised about 3 characters to lvl 80).

Despite this, 1-2 players only need to kill a raid boss 60 to get TOP B weapons, enchant scrolls, stones (if DK borns), huge exp, etc.

I ask, why does a mob that hits really hard, like (4k+ per turn) on goddard cannot drop even a single low or top A weapon or a good piece of armor? (since crafting is impossible as i mentioned before).

You can see for yourself, practically no one is farming in Goddard, except the weaker mobs for dailys.

Server needs a huge change for newcomers to catch up, and even more to keep players attracted. Most of my CP just log for Epics now, why farm hours and hours and no chance for a single good drop?

No Bracelete 6, no new skills for clan, no new talisman (at least PI had it), no new bosses (at least for now - stage 2 will take at least 1-2 months since nobody hunts on goddard).

Talk with your playbase and see what's happening.

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7 hours ago, Setzer said:

Facilitating the drop of Gem-A is a necessity, since as Xanaks said, it is simply unfeasible to try to craft an A-grade weapon, even jewelry and equipment in general.

What's the point of trying to craft a majestic ring using 3 Gem-A (each gem costs more than the ring itself), or a weapon that possibly won't even cover the crafting cost.

It's very unbalanced.

Not only that, but to this day I still can't understand why up to lvl 75 (farm LOA), it is possible to drop TOP weapons in the game by hunting normal monsters (is the chance minimal? Yes, but at least there is a chance).

However, after lvl 75 (GC farm and now Goddard), there's simply isn't any full drop, not even normal equips have a reasonable chance (not to mention that top items like mj circlet and armor don't drop from these mobs).

Please note that here on the Dion server the chance of even dropping boots and gloves is ridiculous compared to IT, if I dropped 5 full items to date it's a lot (I've already raised about 3 characters to lvl 80).

Despite this, 1-2 players only need to kill a raid boss 60 to get TOP B weapons, enchant scrolls, stones (if DK borns), huge exp, etc.

I ask, why does a mob that hits really hard, like (4k+ per turn) on goddard cannot drop even a single low or top A weapon or a good piece of armor? (since crafting is impossible as i mentioned before).

You can see for yourself, practically no one is farming in Goddard, except the weaker mobs for dailys.

Server needs a huge change for newcomers to catch up, and even more to keep players attracted. Most of my CP just log for Epics now, why farm hours and hours and no chance for a single good drop?

No Bracelete 6, no new skills for clan, no new talisman (at least PI had it), no new bosses (at least for now - stage 2 will take at least 1-2 months since nobody hunts on goddard).

Talk with your playbase and see what's happening.

I would agree that PI was a nice move and game changer. Tyrannosaurs and all. Bracelet chances were a bit too low but there was more to it.

I do not see the end game perspective as good as Setzer but I can claim that the catch up players always had a tremendous difficulty in actual catching up. It just cuts a lot of players. Coming to the spot, and having an understanding that it is almost impossible to defend yourself is not so cool in the long run. You introduced the Exp Runes 1-76 (78) before for COLs, I do not think that any end game player would be against it. 1rst, 2nd class transfers for CoLs is a great move. But expanding the donate base for catch up players is OK, just help those that want a bit quicker way to the big guys a bit quicker. The end game players, though having 0 interest in helping or inviting new people, also struggle from the lack of fresh blood who wants to put a claim on top things. 


 

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On 7/12/2024 at 5:19 AM, Setzer said:

However, after lvl 75 (GC farm and now Goddard), there's simply isn't any full drop, not even normal equips have a reasonable chance (not to mention that top items like mj circlet and armor don't drop from these mobs).

Agreed on everything but this part...
You can drop full B items UNDER GC (Shamans, warriors, etc.) Drop top B weapons/jewelry and such.

Generally, the server economy is F****ed when it comes to A grade - admins and GMs need to empathise with the player base of 70+ (presumably most of active players anyways). Because of already thinning numbers of players we don't have enough mats in circulation to support any sort of crafting. Unsealing or crafting super runes using gem A is another whole game of the impossible.

The ceiling for gem A, MTs and now cloth pieces have been long discussed as a virtually adjusted problem by the admins and seems like an opinionated and subjective way to control the progression for server's player base. 

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2 hours ago, SirBishop said:

Agreed on everything but this part...
You can drop full B items UNDER GC (Shamans, warriors, etc.) Drop top B weapons/jewelry and such.

Generally, the server economy is F****ed when it comes to A grade - admins and GMs need to empathise with the player base of 70+ (presumably most of active players anyways). Because of already thinning numbers of players we don't have enough mats in circulation to support any sort of crafting. Unsealing or crafting super runes using gem A is another whole game of the impossible.

The ceiling for gem A, MTs and now cloth pieces have been long discussed as a virtually adjusted problem by the admins and seems like an opinionated and subjective way to control the progression for server's player base. 

Hello. Check other players answers in this topic. Some people want more A gem, some people don't want more A gems in same topic.
1) Gemstones where added to Goddard mobs.
2) Cloth Pieces where added to normal bosses in Goddard.

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It's hard to defend the server when it comes to fun at prime lv 78+
There's simply nothing to do, there are no spots to farm items, the boss doesn't drop ANYTHING other than Phoenix Gems and some runes....

It simply loses its appeal, the majority of people only enter for Epics, Sieges, oly etc... 
We don't even have a bracelet size 6 to make us want to do the daily work.

I'm not even going to go into the merits of the new areas that have flopped... Just go now and you'll see for yourself.
The update is not 15 days old, it shouldn't be like this.

Staff must urgently pay more attention to 78+ content

Unfortunately, this is the reality today. 
I don't even have the energy to come and make suggestions here anymore. 
But I hope that changes. 

Setzer has some great suggestions! Listen to him.

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15 hours ago, SirBishop said:

Agreed on everything but this part...
You can drop full B items UNDER GC (Shamans, warriors, etc.) Drop top B weapons/jewelry and such.

Generally, the server economy is F****ed when it comes to A grade - admins and GMs need to empathise with the player base of 70+ (presumably most of active players anyways). Because of already thinning numbers of players we don't have enough mats in circulation to support any sort of crafting. Unsealing or crafting super runes using gem A is another whole game of the impossible.

The ceiling for gem A, MTs and now cloth pieces have been long discussed as a virtually adjusted problem by the admins and seems like an opinionated and subjective way to control the progression for server's player base. 

Yeah, farming lvl 75+ mobs (like, in theory lvl 76 plus should be grade-S use).

Droping items of a lvl 52... on 70+ mobs... sooooo appealing. 
 

Anyway, the suggestions are there, goddard has so many content, just need to be well implemented. 

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