MoDoy

necro is epics dependant, DA? not really because of how high his horror/shield stun land rate is, 77 DA without epics can kill 90% ppl in olympiad and thats more than 77 ES without gear can kill, so no, you dont need billions of adena to farm on DA (well, maybe if you are chinese you do, because without gear they would lose even on DA) stop the crap, you werent two shotted by ungeared 77 lvl ES, same like nansey was saying and when i actually did the test in comparison with gear, stop dreaming they do such damage pretty sure if you lose to those lolo ponies that play every friday/saturday, you would lose to lolo DAs as well, they are so bad that it hurts ES was never top farmer, it was always competing at high rank in olympiad, but was never top farmer, not when their nuke was boosted and not now when their summon damage is boosted and fear is nerfed fun fact: when nuke damage was boosted on summoner for 1-2 weeks, i am pretty sure average win rate of summoners actually lowered, because they started to be less careful and threw some of the matches

how exactly is that a compromise??

i know very well about situation on gran kain and i also know who spin is, thats why i linked one of his older videos from antharas patch, when there is no seraphim, there is no ranking system and no 80+ passives and i can guarantee you that people are able to get better gear here on club than what he has on that video (i know his recent videos are crap and thats why i am not comparing how he goes solo to FoG and kills full parties solo) meta exists in every game, some people prefer it easy way, some people like to play whatever they want and try to make it work, even if they need more gear and they know they might not be as efficient as they would be if they went for meta pick. Just because class is not top in everything or even anything, doesnt mean the class is utter poop were there, done that, is that actually impressive? because i am pretty sure dagger has upper hand in summoner match up ;d

am i really supposed to go get 77 lvl ES on live server and compare it with our EE 80 lvl (i dont think there is much difference considering passive skills with SE) and show damage on live server? will there be any other wish you would love to have after seeing numbers in that test or you will be satisfied with those conditions when seeing dmg wont be what you described?

so you think damage on video i showed is too high for pet? you really think 1.5k stun skill and 1.6k hydro pump is too much in that scenario?

so? there is not known environment for both of those cases, but i could bet something both of them had berserker spirit on them, as far as i remember semen didnt have magic barrier when he ate 7k and he got it from pony 80 with overenchanted gear, so in those conditions, i dont see how he wouldnt be able to eat 3.5k normal magic nuke from pony once again, can you point out what was wrong in video test i provided in controlled environment you gave spec to? coz i did everything you said how it was and the numbers just dont add up ;d

you belive something is wrong on the test i did? if so, can you point it out? because i did everything like you described, so where exactly is the missing damage? maybe your memory doesnt go right or you simply lied about some conditions just to prove your point ;d

so lets get some things straight "especially in olympiad"? where else its actually gamebreaking except olympiad? yes, by official standards this limitation was removed once ppl got overgeared and since summons dont scale with items almost at all, they decided to remove it. As i said, dont try to bring "well, fear is now not by official", because then ppl can shove you in the face these kind of videos and give you real reason why to cry about summoners, because right now summoners have heavily reduced magic damage on their nukes, ES has heavily reduced crit chance on hydro pump and warlock binding cubic barely lands compared to official and i can guarantee you that any of those "official standards" would be way worse than boosting damage on summons by 30% (which is by the way also official standard) made your character on test server, made normal 77 lvl summoner on which you apparently dont need gear (not like it affects anything unless you are 80 lvl, but you specified in it that master is 77 lvl), well, guess what? damage was nowhere close to what you described, 1.6k vs 2.5k and 1.6k*2 = 3.2k vs 4.4k, does any1 see the difference here? also we cannot agree both of those skills crited, because stun from pony cannot crit, it can overhit, but thats big difference summons ARE supposed to be strong, especially on non buffed non geared character, because their scaling is terrible, the pet on olympiad buffs has 4K p atk and 4.5k m atk, what exact damage you expect? coz i am pretty sure you can get like 4-5k M atk on mage in full buffs and you hit very similar to double m def (like 2k M def), so yes, they will be hitting strong, especially when you are without buffs (just to prove it, you know very well how "strong" pet hits in normal pvp, guess why, yep, coz it doesnt scale) yes, i am also missing times when there were only DAs in olympiad, which are like 3x more forgiving than already forgiving class like ES, not to say even after getting nerfed and summoners boosted, summoners still couldnt claim #1 spot as top olympiad farmers and unlike DAs, which are actually useful in outside pvp, for summoners olympiad is pretty much only place they can be used (ok, harassing randoms on mount can be also counted)

wait, you guys play more than olys?

i am ready to cast the first stone, can i? :d

imagine guy who played on SE as "MoH machine gun" is giving tips to your EE about recharges, healing and rebuffing, after this you really gotta reconsider some serious training for your EE :d

what do you mean, that fully stacked PR making 300 damage to barely equipped tank is not good? ungrateful prick, you should be happy you can at least hit him from 900 range, pfu

thing is, i am reaching over 2k pdef/mdef on my dagger, still getting meltdown by mages also reaching like 5-6k p atk on tyrant is ridiculous like its possible here, so we are already in state you described, it just doesnt work out this is actually interesting idea and if such thing actually should exist but it doesnt here, that would actually solve the archer/dagger problem (lets say the cap is 30% crit damage reduction, that would mean big boost for both auto attack and daggers because right now you can go up to 60% on normal classes and like 90% on tanks?)

you know who i am tho ;/

sure, maybe its easier and faster, but have in mind this might lead that club will look like some korean classic i saw where bishop runs in pvp with 50k HP and 20k CP because damage is so insane they pretty much got to state of GoD stats of chars where warriors had 6 digits HP, that doesnt look so nice on videos anymore and might be bad for propaganda

problem is, mages/tyrant doing ridiculous damage and no blessed soulshots if you have mages hitting for 1-2k normals and 4k+ crits, then ofc archer critting for 1.5-2k to actual normal people seems low, if mages were nuking like they should (600-800 normal, max 2k crit if you are non-hero), then crit from archer for 1.5k wouldnt seem that bad tbh, because you dont waste MP on it and fights would last much longer tho like rizos said, also its problem that for some reason, there is 12938012389423 tanks which are tankier than on official (yes, i am looking on you, DAs with +12 WIT setup while being immortal), here the physical crit dmg to bards/tanks if absolute joke in addition to block rate imagine normal mage hitting like this, then i would take 1.6k crits on archer (coz with othell, you crit quite often) but if you make 1.5k normal on mage like here, then ofc, hitting every single time same like archer crit and doing triple the damage when you crit is better, fights end much faster coz mages melt everything and thus there is no worry about running out of mana

rip isno, forever in our hearts <3

you usually dont die from 1 reflect skill, for example on mages its usually the second AoE you use right after first one or when you use AoE, you are in middle of enemies which finish you off on low HP, archer has bigger HP pool and if its from bigger range, i dont think that would be problem

most of the end game parties box PP anyway to rebuff some buffs like bts/CC, so you can still box WC to rebuff full party and just finish with active PP during pvp, not many times you actually need to rebuff whole party but only 1 guy who dies or loses something (lets say bishop loses acumen, you have to give it to all for more mana than when you buff it to 1 guy from PP)

idk, then maybe dont do it just to be different but in some vision of the class and make your mind why are you going to do something you decide sure, it can fail and it wont work like you wanted, but i dont think it should be majority of cases if you think it through (btw, i still think gladiator in archer party would be LIT AS HECK and work perfectly) all i am saying is that chance is there, i dont think my PW is meta, even while being hero, i am pretty sure non-hero tyrant would be like 2-3x better in any pvp we did in all this time, yet i wouldnt change it for tyrant, if FW were archer party, i bet i wouldnt be playing PR, coz i wouldnt really find it challenging or fun at all and i am pretty sure rizos would let me play it eventho SR would be FAR from meta its all about what you want to play

you see? thats what i am talking about, people just look at the class, sees what ppl do with it and not check anything anymore while WC wont be able to land any of the debuffs you mentioned, PP can still do block WW and block shield (removing those 2 effects have huge impact, especially if other party dont have active buffer or is not rebuffing properly against banes) and is much bigger heal support/mystic immunity, so in the end, first 2.5 minute of fight WC can do only thing and thats rebuffing (considering some of you die or get canceled), PP can do more during that time and when puri ends, for example for melee party or even archer party, root on enemy is much stronger than fear/sleep (thats the reason melee party used to run with SK in the party, because paralyzing target and making it immobile for your DDs so it cannot kite is much stronger effect than fearing them while your DDs have to chase target and never catch it) in party vs party, you need to run PP box anyway, so instead of having PP box and main WC in party, you can have main PP in party and just make full rebuff from WC and kick him after CoV, i havent seen fight longer than 5 minutes for loooong time and even if the mass pvp goes for longer, probably there is big chance your alliance runs at least one OL which will do VoP for you, so you wont be missing this boost as well

so those people dont have right to complain about meta if they are number 1 abusers, if they are bored to farm and actually make their character good, they have chance to do it, if not, its only their problem i can tell you one example - WC vs PP, just because meta dictates WC is better for party coz it has party buffs, ppl refuse to play PP in general, while truth is, if someone tried to actually play it in normal CP, i am pretty sure it would be very cool gameplay with lots of +, yes, would take you more time to figure the class out, what to do instead of just accepting your faith as being buff bot WC, but hey, if people enjoy it, why not

"huge boost" for that "huge boost" like for example drake armor i worked for 2 years, its not like with other sets, it didnt spawn in auction house, sadly

so you were AW with othell 12 and you were missing blows? something doesnt add up idk, maybe thats your opinion, i have different opinion, first i was building poop castle on my SR, after that i was building poop castle on my PW, eventho they were for sure much weaker than any meta class in the end, i wouldnt switch them at those point

well, then why there are people using m4a1? sure, mostly ppl go for meta pick AK47, but you cannot say nothing else works, just coz people are see meta and blindly go for it so this is not problem of L2 or chronicle, ppl are just lazy, thats all, they want to get everything free, everything fast, they want to be the strongest no matter what, eventho gamestyle will be boring as hell and what was your equip on dagger? ofc, dagger isnt best melee DD and is very item dependant, if you think that any class will go and rock n roll everyone else just because you "like your class" then you are wrong, but at least you can go and pm a lot with @Robbin92, who also thinks that love for class is everything if someone is lazy and just want easy gameplay, he will go for meta, if someone likes some class, he can make it work on classic, thats why its nice chronicle in general