Warlord Rework?

[Ermenegildo 2]

3 hours ago, MoDoy said:

first 2 questions - pve wise, eventho topic is about pvp

 

Really? title is warlord rework 

He talk about MP of skills (pvp?)

On 1/31/2021 at 3:06 PM, Laura said:

Hello guys I come here to talk about Warlord/Dreadnought in the meta right now.

I think Warlord its a forgotten profession, some time ago warlord are wanted to farm, to pvp etc, right now warlord its just useless.

Are you sure?

12 hours ago, MoDoy said:

sure, i can understand that everyone would love to boost class that they play that the class itself would be actually strong without strong equip requirement or fully understanding the class, but reality is, thats not going to happen, there will always be few meta picks, some average picks (that means if you like the class, you can play it, but its not going to be even comparable with meta pick, but wont be absolute trash as you will probably invest in the class and know what the class is about) and many sh1t picks

just for comparison, here are classes which in my opinion underperform WL in pvps - TK / SK / gladi / spoiler / crafter / TH / PW / AW / HE / SR / sorc / sps / warlock / PS / PP 
amount of classes i wrote - 15, total amount of classes in l2 - 31

Now i'm sure you want to troll us xDDD

so, for you daggers  are in worst position? really? a prof that can kill 1 char with 1 hit...and you being dagger don't know that? wow

sorc/sps? you can make a good pt with them in GC, a CP of nukers to pvp are good, isn't it? and in the next pacht they learn new skills

Warlock/Phantom summoner? maybe elemental master eclipses all, but you don't see PS in olys? 

Gladi have more chance to make stun with an axe and hammer crush than warlord

For spoiler/craft please don't compare, last week i finished farming my crafter.

PP is with WC the perfect box, yeah. But now pp  learn 11skills, 11!!! I'm sure when u go to farm u take a PP with CC, isn't it? same as warlord

TK/SK are good but comparing to Pala/DA, yeah, it's not the same.

And now  answer my questions in first post, when was the last time you give pt to a warlord? maybe you haven't got 3rd class change.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Ermenegildo

[MoDoy 1772]

12 minutes ago, Laura said:

Dont have time to answer all the questions but you hit my mind with "Go 1 for 1 with warlord in pve to get items", A character with a unique pasive and roll on game and they cant use it, Nothing more to say xDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I mean, instead of asking for correct that bug, you want a warlord go 1 vs1. its ok.

unique passive? what passive are you talking about? polearm mastery is not unique, destros have it, crafts have it, spoilers have it, yet they dont say only thing they should be able to do is AoE, do they? if you want to talk about unique skills, then yeah, WL has unique skill which is EXACTLY for the point when you go for 1 by 1 farming, why would they add this skill if that should never be the case for WL to go 1 by 1? 

14 minutes ago, Laura said:

You say WL has the most LEVEL UP till 75... Sure? more than archers/mages killiing bears outside aden?? Making raids FOM raids then ABG etc?

Almost you say daggers  overcome WL....thats something...:D

yea, i would say so that up until 75, WL can outlevel archers or mages killing outside of aden, honestly, i was never exping in that area, but i doubt you can do more xp after 70+ there than you can do with warlord in crater FP, so eventually, even if you could smh go faster at earlier lvls, WL would eventually catch up and even get in front of xp wise. if you talk about FOM raids and ABG raids which spawn at 21:00, it doesnt support any argument, it literally doesnt matter what class you play in those raids as far as i know, you just need to get party in CC and you dont even need to bother hitting, damage your class makes is irrelevant and unless you go for orc party out of CC for drops/xp, there is no difference if you are sws or WL or dagger or mage, so that kind of xp is same for any class

16 minutes ago, Ermenegildo said:

Really? title is warlord rework 

He talk about MP of skills (pvp?)

did you make it past the title? maybe you could go read the first post of the guy who made the topic? literally EVERY paragraph he wrote there was about WL<-> pvp, you are free to go and recheck

17 minutes ago, Ermenegildo said:

Now i'm sure you want to troll us xDDD

so, for you daggers  are in worst position? really? a prof that can kill 1 char with 1 hit...and you being dagger don't know that? wow

your average dagger definitely wont kill 1 char in 1 hit, unless its afk standing without buffs, i can guarantee you that, i am being dagger, i am WELL aware what daggers can do with proper equip, but i am also aware what warlords can do with proper equip

 

sorc/sps? you can make a good pt with them in GC, a CP of nukers to pvp are good, isn't it? and in the next pacht they learn new skills

Warlock/Phantom summoner? maybe elemental master eclipses all, but you don't see PS in olys? 

Gladi have more chance to make stun with an axe and hammer crush than warlord

For spoiler/craft please don't compare, last week i finished farming my crafter.

PP is with WC the perfect box, yeah. But now pp  learn 11skills, 11!!! I'm sure when u go to farm u take a PP with CC, isn't it? same as warlord 

TK/SK are good but comparing to Pala/DA, yeah, it's not the same.

And now  answer my questions in first post, when was the last time you give pt to a warlord? maybe you haven't got 3rd class change.

19 minutes ago, Ermenegildo said:

sorc/sps? you can make a good pt with them in GC, a CP of nukers to pvp are good, isn't it? and in the next pacht they learn new skills

Warlock/Phantom summoner? maybe elemental master eclipses all, but you don't see PS in olys? 

Gladi have more chance to make stun with an axe and hammer crush than warlord

For spoiler/craft please don't compare, last week i finished farming my crafter.

PP is with WC the perfect box, yeah. But now pp  learn 11skills, 11!!! I'm sure when u go to farm u take a PP with CC, isn't it? same as warlord

TK/SK are good but comparing to Pala/DA, yeah, it's not the same.

And now  answer my questions in first post, when was the last time you give pt to a warlord? maybe you haven't got 3rd class change.

sorc or sps good in GC? only thing i am aware of is that IF mages actually farm in GC, they farm 1 by 1 and for that they use CDLs of necros and sph, not sorc/sps which will do 0 single target dps and will run out of mp in few minutes. now is the CP of nukers good for pvp? sure, it is, but you can specify it more to mage party of necros/spellhowlers are good for pvp

warlock and PS good in oly? sure, they are, are they good in other aspects of the game? nah, not really. that would bring question, if i can find 1 thing that WL is good at, does it justify the class and does it mean its good and doesnt need rework? i dont think so, you looked at 1 very specific aspect of the game and said "yeah, those classes are better", but in general, those classes are actually worse and many times they will perform worse than WL

gladi has more chance to stun with hammer crush than warlord? wrong, that just shows you are clueless about debuffs and their landrates

spoiler/crafter dont compare? why not?

PP is perfect box, well, okay? does it mean the class is good enough, because its the most convenient box? i guess not, coz otherwise they wouldnt make so many changes to it, right? and yes, people bring their PP with CC to farm, but for me thats exactly same as people bringing TK/pala for pvp and kicking him out of party right after he gives 80 lvl buff  does it mean those classes are good just coz people bring them as boxes to pvps? not really in my eyes

TK/SK are good? in what universe are they good? sure, TK got recent rework where his stun goes through puri and instead of stunning you for half second, it actually stuns you for like 1.5-2s with 3s reuse, which makes you almost immobile, i will give you that TK is probably in better shape right now than WL because of bug

now answer from me to your last question would be irrelevant, the moment i still played was long enough and people could say "well, WL wasnt that bad back then coz not everyone had puri", but my party which still plays had WL in setup at some point, they had PS in setup, they had warlock in setup, hell they had stupid PW  (me) in setup when the class was super garbage. why? because i liked the class despite it not being powerhouse, so yeah, even classes which are not meta i would invite to party, in the end its about how the guy utilizes the class

[Rizos 1487]

22 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

ur last question would be irrelevant, the moment i still played was long enough and people could say "well, WL wasnt that bad back then coz not everyone had puri", but my party which still plays had WL in setup at some point, they had PS in setup, they had warlock in setup, hell they had stupid PW  (me) in setup when the class was super garbage. why? because i liked the class despite it not being powerhouse, so yeah, even classes which are not meta i would invite to party, in the end its about how the guy utilizes the class

 

 

[Ermenegildo 2]

Ok men, warlords are middle/Top chars in this server.

19 hours ago, MoDoy said:

yes, but as you can see, this server is not at "the same chronicle", i dont see gladi or dwarves having rush, you do? its only tyrant, which was first warrior with rush since 2.0 update as part of his 76+ 3rd class skills kit, so right, unless that update comes, nothing to discuss here  

It's curious how depending on the chars you change the version.

"only nerf tyrant should be getting is finally fixing raging force damage, not even removing crit chance from the skill, but fixing it so it deals 300 damage and 600 crit like it was on official, used mostly as hex in pvp and pve, not as damage source" Modoy - 22 January  https://l2classic.club/forum/topic/29597-tyrant-su/

Please don't nerf tyrant, nobody will use the most farmer prof of server...

This server is not official, so please, for the future post be coherent.

 

 

[MoDoy 1772]

1 minute ago, Ermenegildo said:

Ok men, warlords are middle/Top chars in this server.

It's curious how depending on the chars you change the version.

"only nerf tyrant should be getting is finally fixing raging force damage, not even removing crit chance from the skill, but fixing it so it deals 300 damage and 600 crit like it was on official, used mostly as hex in pvp and pve, not as damage source" Modoy - 22 January  https://l2classic.club/forum/topic/29597-tyrant-su/

Please don't nerf tyrant, nobody will use the most farmer prof of server...

This server is not official, so please, for the future post be coherent.

please, show me where i say warlord is "top class" in my flow of thoughts, i am curious  warlord isnt top tier for quite some time and it wont be anymore, it has still its own uses and its more viable for people than many classes offered now

do you even know what was tyrant nerfs? do you play one? you know where is the class problem?  if you knew all of this, you would know i am against nerfing the core of the class instead of fixing bugged skill which makes tyrant insanely strong in pvp - now go figure out whats the difference between bolded words

be coherent? i am pretty sure i didnt go against myself in any of the replies, what you or others might read in between lines is not my problem that you guys imagine that i said something i didnt  

[Reddish 258]

Imo, just wait till update will strike in and try how it will work now on. I belive kings of stunlock will be back, not at that insane force they were before killing solo 9 ppl, but decent and useful in pvp not only fully epix stacked.

Also, about bragging WL is not cool enough - plx don't trigger:D You may already noticed how painfully some of us reacts)
There are ppl here playing useless classes for YEARS, we even lost faith that someday fixes will come. Yet they came and classes got their shine and revenge.
Just be patient, nooS.

[Laura 3]

31 minutes ago, Reddish said:

Imo, just wait till update will strike in and try how it will work now on. I belive kings of stunlock will be back, not at that insane force they were before killing solo 9 ppl, but decent and useful in pvp not only fully epix stacked.

Also, about bragging WL is not cool enough - plx don't trigger:D You may already noticed how painfully some of us reacts)
There are ppl here playing useless classes for YEARS, we even lost faith that someday fixes will come. Yet they came and classes got their shine and revenge.
Just be patient, nooS.

Thx sensei, We will be patient, just want some changes when I see some other changes on other classes...

 

I dont want 60% stun lock even with Puri or something like that, I want new skills, or reworked ones, not one stupid stunlock.

 

Thx for the replies, almost the post has got 2 pages right now!!

[Lenny 3]

+ WL AxZP
- China
Bad class (2:25)

 

[Laura 3]

11 hours ago, Lenny said:

+ WL AxZP
- China
Bad class (2:25)

 

What is you want to show us the damages of "400"? Get a tyrant/gladi or mage making AOE Skills and compare Damages
The resisted on all the screen? Puri fuscks all the debuffs we know it.
Or he can hit in AOE as ever the warlord do? Thanks god almost we can hit some targets at same time...

II dont know what you want to say....

MAybe zP kills all china alone or what?

 

[Lenny 3]

@Laura
WL mass class 1 skill = 400 * 10 targets = 4000 (although if you look the damage reaches up to 1500 for 1 target) and this is according to the top equipment of China. WL has never been and has never been a single target killing class. The Purify song will be fixed to 50% so there will already be a class boost. And yes, I am against new skills for SE and EE. Since this will only bring an imbalance on the classic server.

[Laura 3]

1 hour ago, Lenny said:

@Laura
WL mass class 1 skill = 400 * 10 targets = 4000 (although if you look the damage reaches up to 1500 for 1 target) and this is according to the top equipment of China. WL has never been and has never been a single target killing class. The Purify song will be fixed to 50% so there will already be a class boost. And yes, I am against new skills for SE and EE. Since this will only bring an imbalance on the classic server.

With fishing scrolls, you can do more damage than WL skills, and you dont spent mana with the scrolls..

#AmazingFacts

[Ermenegildo 2]

1 hour ago, Laura said:

With fishing scrolls, you can do more damage than WL skills, and you dont spent mana with the scrolls..

#AmazingFacts

And fishing scrolls don't have limit of targets.

With the new changes of skills GM's want to balance profs, now (before new patch) there are prof useless like prophet that only are usefull to be boxes. With new skills they will be better to be a main char. It's not the case of the warlord, we see chars who make AOE in pvp better in all aspects than Warlords, so nobody will change another AOE char to take warlord.

Warlord is not the only one who is in this situation.  Warcryers are very important, but after buff/Gate you don't do nothing more in 20min farming/pvp, similar as SE with stigma/empo. These profs have the necessity of be more importants all time, or we will only use like boxes. (Warlord is not useful like a box too)

[Laura 3]

Bump?

On 2/5/2021 at 8:33 AM, Ermenegildo said:

And fishing scrolls don't have limit of targets.

With the new changes of skills GM's want to balance profs, now (before new patch) there are prof useless like prophet that only are usefull to be boxes. With new skills they will be better to be a main char. It's not the case of the warlord, we see chars who make AOE in pvp better in all aspects than Warlords, so nobody will change another AOE char to take warlord.

Warlord is not the only one who is in this situation.  Warcryers are very important, but after buff/Gate you don't do nothing more in 20min farming/pvp, similar as SE with stigma/empo. These profs have the necessity of be more importants all time, or we will only use like boxes. (Warlord is not useful like a box too)

yes any class can do the same or more damage than warlord in aoe pve or massive, using fishing scrolls....

This isnt a Cry to get more chances on stuns, maybe the char can receive new skills as other warriors has to get more mobility (rush) or Base Speed, For example removing the penalty on the thrill fight self buff?? a buff who gives 10% atack speed and makes you 10% slower....

[Lafi 100]

soon... actualy - on Monday (fingers crossed)

[Ovid 17]

I may not be a WL specialist, but I did play it in the olden days and it was a very fun class to farm with. Although a bit difficult to manage in mass PvP, if you had lag or a slow computer. That and bad items, low level, no epics, might convince most players that it's a bad class. It all comes to preferences I might say.

 

I looked at the skills WL has in Classic and they seem fine, pvp-wise. I guess it all depends on the gear you have, and the one the enemy has, plus the buffs/debuffs.

Now, don't jump at my throat, but I would make the "Detect" skills give more bonuses, and would make them scale per level-thresholds. 

1. Detect Insect Weakness, for example, gives a 5% bonus dmg against insects, which to me seems very low.

Maybe increase it to 10%, or even 15%. Or, keep 5% dmg and give 5% defense against insect attacks. Work with the numbers until you find the perfect balance and not make the class overpowered. And add these changes to all "Detect" skills. 

 

2. Another suggestion would be to add 3% vampiric effect to Fell Swoop, and make it work only with Spears/Polearms, and only in PvE.

Lvl 1 Fell Swoop - give 1% VR

Lvl 3 Fell Swoop - give 2% VR

Lvl 5 Fell Swopp - give 3% VR

 

3. Give another level to Thrill Fight, and make it give at lvl 3: -7% Speed, +13% Attack Speed.

If you want, at lvl 85 you can give another level to the skill, so it will give: -5% Speed, +15% Attack Speed

 

Anyway, you can tweak the numbers if they are too good, as these were just some examples to help the class a little bit.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Ovid

[Creative1365 17]

With a spike from craft and aura wl should be able to stun lock almost every enemy in pvp with same gear ,

In AOE PvE if you think that's is low than u never played with good PvE setup on new zone

wl is hard to balance every buff can make it overpowered or useless,no one is playing it right now because of the low stun Landrates but that's u can increase with good buff .