Suggestion: Separating the fourth group into two different groups

[Cyane 230]

Hello. This post is about Class change system

At the moment, the fourth group is formed as follows

Fourth group classes:
Warlord
Gladiator
Treasure Hunter
Hawkeye
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Phantom Ranger
Destroyer
Tyrant

But i think that is unfair for archers, and specially for daggers.
Their capabilities for AoE, which is the most efficient system for leveling we know, are inferior or non-existent when compared to warriors.

The clearest cases are Phantom Ranger and dagger classes, since they dont have ANY Aoe skills. Hawkeye and Silver ranger have, but are less efficient than Warriors.
This means that those dd classes that cant offer a decent or any aoe damage, are not required on cps, or less accepted on groups/clans. I havent seen any post recruiting dagger classes because of this, and no random group that requires them for AoE pve. 
So they have to solo, or look for parties that kills mobs 1 by 1. And thats a big disadvantage in this chronicle. Specially for daggers, since they are fragile meles, and the fact that evasion sucks doesnt help anything. They require, more than any other fighter, someone else to absorb damage for them or a healer. But still, they are the least efficient fighters for soloing. Even less efficient than archers.
I suggest that the groups should be as follows:

Fourth group (only rogues)

Treasure Hunter
Hawkeye
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abbys Walker
Phantom Ranger

Fifth group classes: (only warriors)

Warlord
Gladiator
Destroyer
Tyrant

Sixth group:

Spellhowler
Sorcerer
Necromancer
Spellsinger

I ask you to consider the following

1) Do you think it is fair that a dagger, who has broke his ass soloing all this time and that has been rejected from pve parties  because of not having anything to offer, can be in the same category off a Warlord, Destroyer, Gladiator? I dont think so...
2) Do you think that all dagger classes should change to warrior to lvl up faster? You can not doubt about warriors having an advantage in this matter.

If we dont change the system, the most logic step would be to change to warrior (if you are a dagger) to lvl up much faster. Im against it, because it affects even more the variety of classes, the extremly low population of dagger classes. But most of all, im against it because i think it is unfair that warrior classes, with all this advantages they had until now, will endup being more leveled daggers on olympiads than the real daggers of classic: those who have played and learned to accept them with all the limitations they had on pvp all the way through since 1.0.

Thks

[SOiL 342]

I agree.

 

[MoDoy 1772]

to some extent i agree, i know some ppl who sticked to class they like but it sucked feel like being robbed of something once olympiad comes in, and they will feel like all those long hours of good for nothing grind is in vain, BUT on the other hand:

1. splitting them would result in less class change donations i guess (eventho i believe its not that big amount for server from this service, its still something, so i doubt anything will change)

2. if ppl and admins agree on changing the tiers like this, then other ppl will pop up with similar ideas as like "why is phantom summoner in same category as tanks, when tanks are needed in every AoE pts and overall xp fast, especially DA with his panther, which is also really useful in pvp, so ppl invite him to pt/cp a lot, and their argument will be "u changed this thing for daggers/archers, why not for summoners?"

3. AoE farming is not everything. i know its fast, most of the time much faster than doing 1 by 1 farming, but consider things like bosses, which for example mages cannot attend, and its really easy and good xp until like 66-67 lvl (and that will increase with 2.0 kicking in, which will add new bosses, tho not sure until what lvls they are going to be, but i guess at least 70)

now for the ppl who might think i disagree with the idea coz i am one of the guys who plans to reroll to this thing, i play silver ranger myself, and i am pretty sure i will see many ppl rerolling to it on 2.0 coz of olympiad, yet i still think someone who lvled up and grind those lvls hard has better knowledge of the character, knows its limits, what stunts u can pull off, has better mechanics and better skill combination with certain lvl of reflexes to situation as what to use, and thats the biggest advantage u have against those ppl who are going to reroll to class just before olympiad, coz i can tell u that dagger is not even close to be easy mechanic class, especially on classic

(also leaving my vote open for now to see other ppl arguments, maybe someone will persuade me that this is actually good idea)

[Haibara 23]

you read my mind cyane ? i totally agree. i spend a lot of hours... at lets from 62 to 69 (actually lvl) soloing... month of soloing. 

but in 2.0 a lot of gladys tyrant and wl reroll to Dagger... it will hurt all of us, who play and lvl as dagger for long time... without pt, cause no one want us in a pt... anyway. you explain all. 
thx cyane,

[hunterl2 8]

i agree ofc , man the only thing that make me sad is this system man

[Rizos 1487]

I like your idea up to some degree, i also agree with modoy's arguments, especially the one taht every1 gonna ask then to move his class to other tier cos of zilions of reasons. Also i see 1 downside of this. I noticed already ppl complaining they started to play mages and now they are bored with it and they want to try out something else. They would change to tyrant/glad/archer and make warrior/archer cp but they simply cant and they bring argument like "wtf i exped my char 1 year, i made 70 lvl and not its totaly useless i can trash it cos i cant class change it to anything usefil". Now look at cloudyq CP, they changed from wariors to archers, it might be unfair ye to other archers cos his cp is around 70-74 cos exped as meeles, but this change will cause same problem for wariors as now mages have, warriors wil become trash class in class change sustem and will be able to change only to other warrior class (which is not what ppl are looking for, except some glad <-> wl rerolls).

Anyway i Vote for yes, i think arguments for change are stronger than against, cos abusing class system change to outlvl oponents by faster exping classes is not good/fair thing for me, expesially when we consider upcoming olympiad. Daggers definitely have bigger problem to exp than warriors. I have idea that would probably solve problem of ppl that just want to chaneg cp type cos dont like their class ( for example mages) and didnt intend abuse faster exp and class change. You could set some exp costs to class change into higher tier. For example if mage 70 decides to switch to warrior loose 2 lvl and becomes 68 warrior, if he decides to change for tank, he loose 4 lvls and becomes 66 lvl tank and  if he wants to be PP he loose 7 lvls and become 63. Ofcourse it wouldnt work the different way around and pp 63 who rerol to mage wouldnt become 70 . Just an example numbers, you could adjust it if u like this idea.

P.S. I wouldnt be myself if i didnt add coment about PR mentioned by cyane in his post. PR doesnt have aoe, thats right, but on offi he has other tool to use on pve. Unfortunately on our server its customized because some ppl dont like it on pvp (ofc i dont agree with that, because most of classes have their strong skills that are not nerfed, like gladi banana, da fear, wl 900 range stun, necro transfer pain/anchor etc, and dunno what is the reason to nerf 1 strong skill and leave other strong classes unchanged. Furthermore majorty of server is against changing any class skills at all. Source: http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/13148-server-custom-changes/). IF PR main PVP/PVE skill is fixed it doesnt need to be in different tier than warriors in my opinion.

[Anytime 556]

I like your idea up to some degree, i also agree with modoy's arguments, especially the one taht every1 gonna ask then to move his class to other tier cos of zilions of reasons. Also i see 1 downside of this. I noticed already ppl complaining they started to play mages and now they are bored with it and they want to try out something else. They would change to tyrant/glad/archer and make warrior/archer cp but they simply cant and they bring argument like "wtf i exped my char 1 year, i made 70 lvl and not its totaly useless i can trash it cos i cant class change it to anything usefil". Now look at cloudyq CP, they changed from wariors to archers, it might be unfair ye to other archers cos his cp is around 70-74 cos exped as meeles, but this change will cause same problem for wariors as now mages have, warriors wil become trash class in class change sustem and will be able to change only to other warrior class (which is not what ppl are looking for, except some glad <-> wl rerolls).

Anyway i Vote for yes, i think arguments for change are stronger than against, cos abusing class system change to outlvl oponents by faster exping classes is not good/fair thing for me, expesially when we consider upcoming olympiad. Daggers definitely have bigger problem to exp than warriors. I have idea that would probably solve problem of ppl that just want to chaneg cp type cos dont like their class ( for example mages) and didnt intend abuse faster exp and class change. You could set some exp costs to class change into higher tier. For example if mage 70 decides to switch to warrior loose 2 lvl and becomes 68 warrior, if he decides to change for tank, he loose 4 lvls and becomes 66 lvl tank and  if he wants to be PP he loose 7 lvls and become 63. Ofcourse it wouldnt work the different way around and pp 63 who rerol to mage wouldnt become 70 . Just an example numbers, you could adjust it if u like this idea.

P.S. I wouldnt be myself if i didnt add coment about PR mentioned by cyane in his post. PR doesnt have aoe, thats right, but on offi he has other tool to use on pve. Unfortunately on our server its customized because some ppl dont like it on pvp (ofc i dont agree with that, because most of classes have their strong skills that are not nerfed, like gladi banana, da fear, wl 900 range stun, necro transfer pain/anchor etc, and dunno what is the reason to nerf 1 strong skill and leave other strong classes unchanged. Furthermore majorty of server is against changing any class skills at all. Source: http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/13148-server-custom-changes/). IF PR main PVP/PVE skill is fixed it doesnt need to be in different tier than warriors in my opinion.

​i like the core of the idea! - flexible classchange system give partys a chance to fix problems in cp when someone leave/quit or what ever!

[beatdeath 29]

Hello. This post is about Class change system

At the moment, the fourth group is formed as follows

Fourth group classes:
Warlord
Gladiator
Treasure Hunter
Hawkeye
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Phantom Ranger
Destroyer
Tyrant

But i think that is unfair for archers, and specially for daggers.
Their capabilities for AoE, which is the most efficient system for leveling we know, are inferior or non-existent when compared to warriors.

The clearest cases are Phantom Ranger and dagger classes, since they dont have ANY Aoe skills. Hawkeye and Silver ranger have, but are less efficient than Warriors.
This means that those dd classes that cant offer a decent or any aoe damage, are not required on cps, or less accepted on groups/clans. I havent seen any post recruiting dagger classes because of this, and no random group that requires them for AoE pve. 
So they have to solo, or look for parties that kills mobs 1 by 1. And thats a big disadvantage in this chronicle. Specially for daggers, since they are fragile meles, and the fact that evasion sucks doesnt help anything. They require, more than any other fighter, someone else to absorb damage for them or a healer. But still, they are the least efficient fighters for soloing. Even less efficient than archers.
I suggest that the groups should be as follows:

Fourth group (only rogues)

Treasure Hunter
Hawkeye
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abbys Walker
Phantom Ranger

Fifth group classes: (only warriors)

Warlord
Gladiator
Destroyer
Tyrant

Sixth group:

Spellhowler
Sorcerer
Necromancer
Spellsinger

I ask you to consider the following

1) Do you think it is fair that a dagger, who has broke his ass soloing all this time and that has been rejected from pve parties  because of not having anything to offer, can be in the same category off a Warlord, Destroyer, Gladiator? I dont think so...
2) Do you think that all dagger classes should change to warrior to lvl up faster? You can not doubt about warriors having an advantage in this matter.

If we dont change the system, the most logic step would be to change to warrior (if you are a dagger) to lvl up much faster. Im against it, because it affects even more the variety of classes, the extremly low population of dagger classes. But most of all, im against it because i think it is unfair that warrior classes, with all this advantages they had until now, will endup being more leveled daggers on olympiads than the real daggers of classic: those who have played and learned to accept them with all the limitations they had on pvp all the way through since 1.0.

Thks

​

But what do u want to achieve by this?

What u expect to rogues be able to roll into? So far they re able to roll to warriors or mages, what is ok.
Again, what is ur point? Coz those ladders re made to show what those classes re able to roll into. What will ur idea change?

[Rizos 1487]

He most likely want to prevent ppl from "class change exp abuse" - exping fast on aoe characters like WL, get higher lvl than most of "old" daggers on the server and then change into dagger to play oly with high lvl.

Rogues still gonna be able to rerol into warriors and mages which is ok, what would change? Warriors and mages wont be able to class change into rogue

[pako 33]

As dagger player, lvl 60 I strongly agree for the change. Thinking that after 2.0 suddenly hundred of 70+ daggers will appear out of the blue is driving me crazy:D I make 1 lvl when gladi friends are making 2 or 3 lvls in the same time. It is not fair at all.

[DumDum 1]

Agree

[ProGressive 740]

axaxaxxa. Maybe lets check three months ago my topic about this? "no everything is okey, dont invest time in stupid stuff....". Seriously it always goes like that sooner or later people start thinking and agree with me. Especially here in this server. Its just matter of time when people agree about alliance changing and other stuff, only a matter of time...

[Yomana 437]

I agree with rizos , im in a mage party myself ,we lost our warlord and now we cant do aoe xp and also cant change some of our high lvl dds (70+) to warlord. So it would be nice if there is a way to clange to all classes. We could just turn archers and still be able to xp without the need to recruit someone in our cp.

Ofc i said in other topic that with the current system archers and daggers should be in different category. You cant have people like thelord who xped to 74 SOLO from 1.0 to be the same level with guys that abused the class change system.

About what modoy says , experience doesnt only come from playing a character in this server. Someone might have been playing dagger for years , or playing at russ classic.

 

 

[MoDoy 1772]

I agree with rizos , im in a mage party myself ,we lost our warlord and now we cant do aoe xp and also cant change some of our high lvl dds (70+) to warlord. So it would be nice if there is a way to clange to all classes. We could just turn archers and still be able to xp without the need to recruit someone in our cp.

Ofc i said in other topic that with the current system archers and daggers should be in different category. You cant have people like thelord who xped to 74 SOLO from 1.0 to be the same level with guys that abused the class change system.

About what modoy says , experience doesnt only come from playing a character in this server. Someone might have been playing dagger for years , or playing at russ classic.

 

 

​

I agree with rizos , im in a mage party myself ,we lost our warlord and now we cant do aoe xp and also cant change some of our high lvl dds (70+) to warlord. So it would be nice if there is a way to clange to all classes. We could just turn archers and still be able to xp without the need to recruit someone in our cp.

Ofc i said in other topic that with the current system archers and daggers should be in different category. You cant have people like thelord who xped to 74 SOLO from 1.0 to be the same level with guys that abused the class change system.

About what modoy says , experience doesnt only come from playing a character in this server. Someone might have been playing dagger for years , or playing at russ classic.

​ok, i would take argument someone could play on GK, but playing class out of classic is not good answer to that, game mechanics are totally different and most of the ppl would be totally lost by the playstyle on classic, in same situation u have to use different skills, just because for example how debuffs work

[Rizos 1487]

haha It just brought to my mind funny situation. Imagine you ask your friend (some interlude dagger fan) to play ur char on 2.0 classic oly. Imagine his face when he doesnt know why he cant move after geting ranged hits from gladi :D.
 Btw Modoy, i think you can learn classic features and "situational plays" (you learn them by playing on classic chronicle) much faster than proper dagger mechanics(Which you can learn on every pre-GOD chronicle). So i think the guy who "always played dagger on old chronicles" and now jumps into high lvl class changed dagger has more chances on oly, than some1 who never played dagger but started one here on classic.

Old dagger player with good experience, can just watch several dagger oly movies from gran kain, practice 2 days on oly and he is totally fine. But try to teach guy like zorgzor dagger mechanics and make hero out of him.. GL :D

[BeNicePls 39]

Hello. This post is about Class change system

At the moment, the fourth group is formed as follows

Fourth group classes:
Warlord
Gladiator
Treasure Hunter
Hawkeye
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Phantom Ranger
Destroyer
Tyrant

But i think that is unfair for archers, and specially for daggers.
Their capabilities for AoE, which is the most efficient system for leveling we know, are inferior or non-existent when compared to warriors.

The clearest cases are Phantom Ranger and dagger classes, since they dont have ANY Aoe skills. Hawkeye and Silver ranger have, but are less efficient than Warriors.
This means that those dd classes that cant offer a decent or any aoe damage, are not required on cps, or less accepted on groups/clans. I havent seen any post recruiting dagger classes because of this, and no random group that requires them for AoE pve. 
So they have to solo, or look for parties that kills mobs 1 by 1. And thats a big disadvantage in this chronicle. Specially for daggers, since they are fragile meles, and the fact that evasion sucks doesnt help anything. They require, more than any other fighter, someone else to absorb damage for them or a healer. But still, they are the least efficient fighters for soloing. Even less efficient than archers.
I suggest that the groups should be as follows:

Fourth group (only rogues)

Treasure Hunter
Hawkeye
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abbys Walker
Phantom Ranger

Fifth group classes: (only warriors)

Warlord
Gladiator
Destroyer
Tyrant

Sixth group:

Spellhowler
Sorcerer
Necromancer
Spellsinger

I ask you to consider the following

1) Do you think it is fair that a dagger, who has broke his ass soloing all this time and that has been rejected from pve parties  because of not having anything to offer, can be in the same category off a Warlord, Destroyer, Gladiator? I dont think so...
2) Do you think that all dagger classes should change to warrior to lvl up faster? You can not doubt about warriors having an advantage in this matter.

If we dont change the system, the most logic step would be to change to warrior (if you are a dagger) to lvl up much faster. Im against it, because it affects even more the variety of classes, the extremly low population of dagger classes. But most of all, im against it because i think it is unfair that warrior classes, with all this advantages they had until now, will endup being more leveled daggers on olympiads than the real daggers of classic: those who have played and learned to accept them with all the limitations they had on pvp all the way through since 1.0.

Thks

​+1

[beatdeath 29]

I agree with rizos , im in a mage party myself ,we lost our warlord and now we cant do aoe xp and also cant change some of our high lvl dds (70+) to warlord. 

 

 

​Seriously? LOL
Maybe time to change game then?
And tadulizr and other mage party cheat, coz they dont have wl also. Fuuuuuuuuu
 

. You cant have people like thelord who xped to 74 SOLO from 1.0 to be the same level with guys that abused the class change system.

 

 

 

​By the way out of topic. This is fun also. Put dagger in aoe pt and play tank when hes offline, thats the way. Dont tell fables

[Yomana 437]

haha It just brought to my mind funny situation. Imagine you ask your friend (some interlude dagger fan) to play ur char on 2.0 classic oly. Imagine his face when he doesnt know why he cant move after geting ranged hits from gladi :D.
 Btw Modoy, i think you can learn classic features and "situational plays" (you learn them by playing on classic chronicle) much faster than proper dagger mechanics(Which you can learn on every pre-GOD chronicle). So i think the guy who "always played dagger on old chronicles" and now jumps into high lvl class changed dagger has more chances on oly, than some1 who never played dagger but started one here on classic.

Old dagger player with good experience, can just watch several dagger oly movies from gran kain, practice 2 days on oly and he is totally fine. But try to teach guy like zorgzor dagger mechanics and make hero out of him.. GL

Exactly , and lets not forget how people transform from Russians to korean or chinese 

@beatdeath Dont start offtopic again pls , if you want to lol you can pm me and i can explain  Also stop being a kid. I know its hard but try it.

[Lin 111]

As someone who has played class A, B, C through X, Y Z on this server so far to avoid my sheer bouts of boredom, I voted yes.

It's bad enough the "rare gem" classes here are so unpopular and different (used as an alternate for nerfed) than the majority of the more popular, different (used as an alternate for buffed) cookie-cutter classes. I think nipping this at the bud now is a good idea.

I think setting more restrictions prevents unfair exp-boosting and class-bouncing. I think if the staff here really cared for this concern, there can be implementations made to ensure people are still having fun in a fairer way, and ultimately ensure that donations are still being brought in for this seemingly popular feature.

[DheMoN 4]

Any Admin answer?

4 of each 5 guys voted yes.

Regards

[Haibara 23]

@Koll @Kse @San0 !! 

[gfbot 207]

Its actually easier to level up an archer/dagger now than any other class, cause you can just spam raid bosses. 

lel

[pako 33]

^nice bait

[Yomana 437]

Its actually easier to level up an archer/dagger now than any other class, cause you can just spam raid bosses. 

lel

​until what level? You should understand this thing isnt about lvl 60, we are talking about 70+ lvls reroll.

[BeNicePls 39]

Its actually easier to level up an archer/dagger now than any other class, cause you can just spam raid bosses. 

lel

Talking crap is free, thanks for proving it, but we already knew it.

How many Raids did you see between lvls 63-76? How many of them killable in a reasonable time? well, yes, now you get that you didnt think much before opening that mouth or shoting these fingers on the keyboard.

No problem, we are humans.