Classic meta

[Legiana 149]

Just now, BlackJack said:

Actually it is like official, just description is shit cuze of translation from korean to russian. FC works the same way on ru offi and kr offi. How can you play PR and not even know this shit is beyond me

 

Sorry, I didnt realize i need permission to laugh at your poor game knowledge ;/

Because I am not fool like you simple, what you think you know isn't always the truth.

[kktnxbye 215]

3 hours ago, Rizos said:

crit dmg bufs dont scale with double shot.

~9k fc HAHAHAHA, count how many times i did more than 5k :

 

also fc 5s reuse, you multiply by 20. Does minute have 100s since now on? hahah nice math bro. Go back to school. 48 nukes in 1 minute? I thought you would take pony 30% reuse reduction buff into consideration since you put cat buff in every calculation. U sure you cant do over 60 nukes in 60s even w/o pony buf? U must be rly bad on sps then. NO AQ magic crit dmg in calculation. Nice calculations :0

 

Oh sorry all, didnt know FC 5sec not 3.

That was very approx calculation based on my personal impressions.

I did some tests. Sps can do ~90 hits\min (bd+acu+bers+12wit). ES doesnt matter - you just will cast more powerfull skills with es(cast speed cap). ~33% of casts are low dmg skills like frost and ice dagger. With ES it will be ~66% hydra+solar. BTW I made a mistake in my own calculation(initial calculations gave not 90k but 45k), with 90 hits\per minute the dmg will be ~100k(25% m.crits, 2\3 hydra\solar, 1\3 frost\icedagger, 3 long-delay skills+ QA ring modificator). 

Calculated possible dpm of PR to robes (with full HP) - got ~ same 100k with max buffs. Initial calculations were totally incorrect - cause PR dont just stand between FC, u do double shots and usual shots(which have all modificators). If we try to calculate maximum dpm (with low hp) the result will be ~150k approx. I will test it later to have exact numbers.

Many of u dont understand that I'm (and the majority as well) not against FC usage as Rizo (with full HP, sometimes in FP set). Even from your movie we can see 5-9k FC to robes, (18k to not buffed target) with full HP. Even you lower HP a little bit - you will have already not 5-6k but 7-8k which makes all mages exept of necro 1-shot. Your personal example "Oh look how low damage with FC I make" is nothing more than terrible use of PR and castle.

FC as a skill should be balanced the same way Rizo playing it-  4-5k dmg every 5sec is more than enough. No need to give a free ability to 1-shot mages.

Modoy:

Ok, tnx for the info on modificatiors (nevertheless I have a doubts that cat will give only 6% of real crit chance).

But you are not right about "9k per FC, u realize thats the dmg u make when u are 10% HP" . Noope. 9k to robe u will get with ~50% hp. With 10% u will see 12-15k.

 

[Cyane 230]

Classic meta is: we will reroll class again and again until eventually we all will end up being nukers 

[MoDoy 1772]

5 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

Modoy:

Ok, tnx for the info on modificatiors (nevertheless I have a doubts that cat will give only 6% of real crit chance).

But you are not right about "9k per FC, u realize thats the dmg u make when u are 10% HP" . Noope. 9k to robe u will get with ~50% hp. With 10% u will see 12-15k.

dont forget also physical crit rate is capped on 50% anyway

anytime was so nice to lower me to 25% hp and u can see i did 7k to d4re (not to say hitsudancer casted hex like skill on him, but idk if it landed or not), but FC dmg is linear function with lowering HP, thus no, u wouldnt get 12-15k if i had those 10% HP, i wonder if i would at least reach the 9k dmg so your calculations are so off i would like to cry  

[Arcanum 312]

up to 8,700 damage on plates with FC is possible.

hard to perform, but possible.

[kktnxbye 215]

12 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

dont forget also physical crit rate is capped on 50% anyway

anytime was so nice to lower me to 25% hp and u can see i did 7k to d4re (not to say hitsudancer casted hex like skill on him, but idk if it landed or not), but FC dmg is linear function with lowering HP, thus no, u wouldnt get 12-15k if i had those 10% HP, i wonder if i would at least reach the 9k dmg so your calculations are so off i would like to cry  

Is it will be more dmg if PR 74-76? What weapon do you have? If it will be more with bop++?

Dont you think d4re had earth song? And without it, with higher lvl and weapon would not u do exact 9k?

U did 7 and does it matter? He died from 7k anyway.

 

[MoDoy 1772]

1 minute ago, kktnxbye said:

Is it will be more dmg if PR 74-76? What weapon do you have? If it will be more with bop++?

Dont you think d4re had earth song? And without it, with higher lvl and weapon would not u do exact 9k?

U did 7 and does it matter? He died from 7k anyway.

dude, srsly? i just want to prove how bad your calculations u did are bad, lets see
first u write i should do dmg with d/s, AQ, cat and w/e and that i will see, ok, now when i had dances and sh1ts, u come with "maybe he had earth song"? so u take into consideration damage when i am full buffed and enemies have no buffs? and u want to compare it with damage u saw on movie, when rizos had warding song AND no berserk spirit?

yes, i did 7k dmg to d4re, as i said, hitsudancer did hex on him just before my FC (dunno if landed, but even if not), i was somehow lucky to survive 1 backstab shot from dagger and finished my casting in exact the time i was low, 1s after the casting i got healed by bishop already so i wouldnt die to dagger on my back, and let me tell u one thing, u cannot do it both ways, having +12 STR setup and try to play on low HP, u have to choose one of them, so either with full STR setup but 80% HP u will make same dmg as no dye setup but lowered to ~25% HP (yea, i took this numbers from my ass, but i bet i am not far from the comparison)

also eminence on triilville is more than good enough, there are not so many BoPs out there which have better P atk than this one

[realKingLeonidas 159]

Modoy answer me this question.Am i the only one that can get stunlocked for eternity?Because thats what happen if i get one stunshot from every archer same level with me.Its like 99% stun shot success rate on a human tank even resist shock is buffed.You just stun fc stun fc nonstop and with orfen equiped no mana issues so no prob.So whats the point?900R stun.If the archer have haste+bers and i face him in an open field without obstacles is imposible for me to reach 300R in 1.5s(time archer needs at average to /useskill stunshot) and use my horror ( Horror with land rate of 30-40% compared to stun with 99% rate).or hamstring him to catch him.Its non sence pvp dont you understand it?I wasnt happy when horror was buggy and i was one of the few das if you look on my previous posts that said FIX the mental shield(and not customise it).

Edited May 23, 2017 by realKingLeonidas

[Rizos 1487]

2 hours ago, realKingLeonidas said:

Modoy answer me this question.Am i the only one that can get stunlocked for eternity?Because thats what happen if i get one stunshot from every archer same level with me.Its like 99% stun shot success rate on a human tank even resist shock is buffed.You just stun fc stun fc nonstop and with orfen equiped no mana issues so no prob.So whats the point?900R stun.If the archer have haste+bers and i face him in an open field without obstacles is imposible for me to reach 300R in 1.5s(time archer needs at average to /useskill stunshot) and use my horror ( Horror with land rate of 30-40% compared to stun with 99% rate).or hamstring him to catch him.Its non sence pvp dont you understand it?I wasnt happy when horror was buggy and i was one of the few das if you look on my previous posts that said FIX the mental shield(and not customise it).

If you or enemy has no epics, then horror has around 50% on target with mental shield. Archer has also around 50% chance to stun tank with high con and resist shock lvl4. So he can stun lock you if he is lucky enough, you can fearlock him with same chance

[MoDoy 1772]

7 hours ago, realKingLeonidas said:

Modoy answer me this question.Am i the only one that can get stunlocked for eternity?Because thats what happen if i get one stunshot from every archer same level with me.Its like 99% stun shot success rate on a human tank even resist shock is buffed.You just stun fc stun fc nonstop and with orfen equiped no mana issues so no prob.So whats the point?900R stun.If the archer have haste+bers and i face him in an open field without obstacles is imposible for me to reach 300R in 1.5s(time archer needs at average to /useskill stunshot) and use my horror ( Horror with land rate of 30-40% compared to stun with 99% rate).or hamstring him to catch him.Its non sence pvp dont you understand it?I wasnt happy when horror was buggy and i was one of the few das if you look on my previous posts that said FIX the mental shield(and not customise it).

first of all, stun has 90% base land rate on same lvl enemy, with RS lvl 4 should be around ~60%, also horror is not 30-40%, but somewhere between 50-55% (tested it myself after mental shield got fixed to confirm it was working same as on offi, and i got exactly 55% land rate on same lvl enemy with mental lvl 4), also unlike fear, which cannot be canceled, stun is getting canceled with every second hit on enemy and also there is still bug that even if u land stun on enemy, it has chance to cancel its own debuff

also isnt it normal that one of the fastest classes in game can kite tank? it will just take eternity (for SR even eternity is not enough) to kill u, unless the archer plays smart, because most of the attacks will get blocked and with arrow deflect the dmg is hilarious

[kktnxbye 215]

10 hours ago, MoDoy said:

dude, srsly? i just want to prove how bad your calculations u did are bad, lets see
first u write i should do dmg with d/s, AQ, cat and w/e and that i will see, ok, now when i had dances and sh1ts, u come with "maybe he had earth song"? so u take into consideration damage when i am full buffed and enemies have no buffs? and u want to compare it with damage u saw on movie, when rizos had warding song AND no berserk spirit?

yes, i did 7k dmg to d4re, as i said, hitsudancer did hex on him just before my FC (dunno if landed, but even if not), i was somehow lucky to survive 1 backstab shot from dagger and finished my casting in exact the time i was low, 1s after the casting i got healed by bishop already so i wouldnt die to dagger on my back, and let me tell u one thing, u cannot do it both ways, having +12 STR setup and try to play on low HP, u have to choose one of them, so either with full STR setup but 80% HP u will make same dmg as no dye setup but lowered to ~25% HP (yea, i took this numbers from my ass, but i bet i am not far from the comparison)

also eminence on triilville is more than good enough, there are not so many BoPs out there which have better P atk than this one

Yep, initial calculations were icorrect, I already agreed for that.

How does it matter if you still doing dmg from 1 shoot> then mage HP? I dont want PR have this ability at all. Let em have ~4k(with max buff)-~5k(without max buff) to robe from fc and thats enough (~ -10% dmg). Archers have enough dpm and 9s stun already. Now its "have vitality? blesses\boa?Gr shield? - I dont give a fck - I still 1 shot u". Why I should have max buff to survive 1 shot every 5 seconds anyway? And PR dont need anything except of lowering its HP?

There was similar skill in the past and NCSoft was wise enough to make Aura Symphony quite complicated to use (3 other elemental mages seeds, long cooldown).

Let return 500 power to current aura symphony then(no seeds)? Why not? And let it be 5sec cooldown. Looks fair.

[Rizos 1487]

Why dont we talk about low hp necro here if we talk about low hp pr? Why do u compare pr low hp dmg to sps dmg not to low hp necro dmg? Im pretty sure high lvl, geared cdl necro can frag 90% of ppl on this server in 3 seconds. Why no1 plays this way in necro? Cos its too big risk and there is no nobless scrolls. Same goes for PR. Why would u risk ur life if u can fight on full hp, asisting with other DDs in party, dropping targets instantly on assist, still doing 4k with fc on full hp, sometimes pulling off 1shot 8k hits when you time fc well between bish heals and enemies lower u. This low hp fc tactic is stupid on mass pvp, you die instantly, ask anytine what he did when he caught me on low hp ;). This tool is only usefull on small ganks or 1v1 's, and in this scenerio i agree its overpowered.

[Rizos 1487]

screenshot from today just for lulz . 1 more FC and tank dead, right kingbottaki?

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Rizos

[realKingLeonidas 159]

3 hours ago, Rizos said:

screenshot from today just for lulz . 1 more FC and tank dead, right kingbottaki?

 

WTF.You upload a screen thats you show me an EXCELENT DEFENSE with the propability of this to be very very low % and not all classes exept Palas-TK-SK got 360 shield def.Youre argument was very very noobish and nonsense.Keep going

[MoDoy 1772]

12 minutes ago, realKingLeonidas said:

WTF.You upload a screen thats you show me an EXCELENT DEFENSE with the propability of this to be very very low % and not all classes exept Palas-TK-SK got 360 shield def.Youre argument was very very noobish and nonsense.Keep going

wrong, paladins dont have aegis 

[realKingLeonidas 159]

25 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

wrong, paladins dont have aegis 

[Kure 444]

On 22. 5. 2017 at 8:50 PM, kktnxbye said:

Kure:

"mages dps >>>>>> archers dps (even with FC).... cut that crap already."

Lets take average FC dmg ~9k and multiply it to 20 (time\per minute) =180k dmg. Lets take average dmg from hydra ~800 and multiply to 34(usual hits) + 1600(m.crit dmg)*11(m.crits) = 90400. Plus we can add ~ dmg from 2 150 power skills and 1 200 power skill. Should not be >5k. So ~flat comparison 180k vs 95k.

I dont mention that the majority of 70+ population have BO+4-6\analogs and it really helps against mages, and FC dont fcing care what enchant your set is, it will hit 1k less and sorc\sps\sph will die anyway.

alright, i took the job to find you some proof how mage can survive FC with lovered HP....
 

Around time 7:40 i got hit by d4re (at that time he played PR) lowered on 30-40% HP or so... i played Afronus at that time. I didnt even have full CP cos ribos was nuking me before i got hit from d4re (thats why i still remember this fight cos it was double friendly fire)... yet i survived (with 30 or 40 HP) but survived....  now compare it with some of vidoes of fighters (the most active one is myrciu atm) how they literally melt in one second when focused by 2 mages .. one example here - time 4:42 +- 

he had 8400HP, 1100CP and recieved one heal for 1200HP in the mantime... lets say 10,5k dmg in one and half second from 2 mages.. since you obviusly like math, divide it by 2 then and we have 5250dmg in one and half second.... for this dmg PR need 2+ seconds to cast FC, be lowered to +-50% HP at least and then wait for CD... meanwhile mages can burst like that 24/7... 

Still think FC is OP and mages are "balanced"?
 

[kktnxbye 215]

3 hours ago, Kure said:

alright, i took the job to find you some proof how mage can survive FC with lovered HP....
 

Around time 7:40 i got hit by d4re (at that time he played PR) lowered on 30-40% HP or so... i played Afronus at that time. I didnt even have full CP cos ribos was nuking me before i got hit from d4re (thats why i still remember this fight cos it was double friendly fire)... yet i survived (with 30 or 40 HP) but survived....  now compare it with some of vidoes of fighters (the most active one is myrciu atm) how they literally melt in one second when focused by 2 mages .. one example here - time 4:42 +- 

he had 8400HP, 1100CP and recieved one heal for 1200HP in the mantime... lets say 10,5k dmg in one and half second from 2 mages.. since you obviusly like math, divide it by 2 then and we have 5250dmg in one and half second.... for this dmg PR need 2+ seconds to cast FC, be lowered to +-50% HP at least and then wait for CD... meanwhile mages can burst like that 24/7... 

Still think FC is OP and mages are "balanced"?
 

Your examples are not valid: 

1) Bp has more HP and CP then sps\sph\sorc

2) Necro+sps 74+ with max buffs, what did u expect? Gloom + long cooldown 3 skills. With no warding song. These skills works 1 time per 5min. Also its was m.crit with el symph under gloom.

Yes still think FC is OP, cause it can 1 shot mages on lowered hp.

As raw example look at least here on dps during bs farm. Its even not full dps cause PR almost dont shoot other skills or usual hits. I know how many time I need when I farm the same mobs in bs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyXo4JKb5KY

 

[BlackJack 574]

57 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

Your examples are not valid: 

1) Bp has more HP and CP then sps\sph\sorc

2) Necro+sps 74+ with max buffs, what did u expect? Gloom + long cooldown 3 skills. With no warding song. These skills works 1 time per 5min. Also its was m.crit with el symph under gloom.

Yes still think FC is OP, cause it can 1 shot mages on lowered hp.

As raw example look at least here on dps during bs farm. Its even not full dps cause PR almost dont shoot other skills or usual hits. I know how many time I need when I farm the same mobs in bs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyXo4JKb5KY

 

mages are superior to archers cuze they can kill frontline while archers cant. If archers were so good why did awakendemon party who were the first guys to abuse very low live + castle cp in pvp reroll to mages? Mages are even stronger on our server cuze of the shitty AH demons +12. Not to mention that good mage parties have it much easier when outnumbered cuze they can clean the bards. WIth archer party its close to impossible to win 1v2 parties evne if enemy is much lower lvl cuze u cant kill the bards and 2 of your dd's are perma stuck in aggro.

[MoDoy 1772]

6 hours ago, kktnxbye said:

Your examples are not valid: 

2) Necro+sps 74+ with max buffs, what did u expect? Gloom + long cooldown 3 skills. With no warding song. These skills works 1 time per 5min. Also its was m.crit with el symph under gloom.

if u dont want to compare it, then compare the FC dmg with necro using CDL on 10% hp with pony buff and AQ hurr durr "mages" OP

[Arcanum 312]

18 hours ago, Rizos said:

screenshot from today just for lulz . 1 more FC and tank dead, right kingbottaki?

 

ahah, you missed too

[Rizos 1487]

Nice luck huh?

[Pepon 90]

well some of us go +CON and doom to block every now and then

[kktnxbye 215]

4 hours ago, MoDoy said:

if u dont want to compare it, then compare the FC dmg with necro using CDL on 10% hp with pony buff and AQ hurr durr "mages" OP

Agree. Need nerf CDL damage to same 3-4k max as well. And make cd longer.

[MoDoy 1772]

25 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

Agree. Need nerf CDL damage to same 3-4k max as well. And make cd longer.

what about stun shot land rate? and its duration? what about quick spear, being able to stun 10 targets from 900 range? what about horror having 110% base land rate and being 9s, while it cannot be cleansed? what about necros having double the pool of other mages, while they dont lack general dmg compared to other nukers but rather having even more dps because of having 2 spammable nukes compared to sorc/sps? what about gladiators blaster, which crits 40% of the time, is spammable and can stun lock u? what about -dex classes, which dont suffer a bit by decreasing it? what about + wit setups, which dont lose anything compare to other builds? what about summoners being able to nuke for 400 with skill from lvl 36? what about tanks having combat aura, which shouldnt be here? what about poison, bleed or freezing flame, dealing true damage no matter your defense stats, and also if they crit, they make their full dmg instantly (~2-3k)? what about root not being able to over cast while u have this debuff, making it lockable like other debuffs? why doesnt it work with sleep as well? what about gladiators having 1 minute better UE than daggers, with just 5 mins reuse, while daggers have 15mins reuse? what about backfire being 1min long and draining classes using skills from mana in 5s? what about AoE 2 min suspension, which rekts classes dependant on skills? what about silence being 1 min long? what about anchor of necro which is instant cast, thus having 0 chance of outplaying?

please, show me how u can balance all these things, i would be really interested, because what u are doing is u just point at 1 certain class and say nerf it (obviously not even your class), but thats not how balancing thing works

Edited May 24, 2017 by MoDoy