What would you change?

[Donkihot 114]

18 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

so those people dont have right to complain about meta if they are number 1 abusers, if they are bored to farm and actually make their character good, they have chance to do it, if not, its only their problem

i can tell you one example - WC vs PP, just because meta dictates WC is better for party coz it has party buffs, ppl refuse to play PP in general, while truth is, if someone tried to actually play it in normal CP, i am pretty sure it would be very cool gameplay with lots of +, yes, would take you more time to figure the class out, what to do instead of just accepting your faith as being buff bot WC, but hey, if people enjoy it, why not  

the only difference from pp and wc, is heal. I dont see any points playing pp in dd party at all. Wc has all buffs, cov, gates, sleep/feer/stun + some dmg from flames. While pp, can try do some awkward dmg with might of heaven and try to root. 
yes, it is different play of style, you will have fun. But u will lose 1 pt vs 1 pt pvp, and your team mates wont be happy. and sooner or later they will replace u with better version of support. 
I see more ppl playing wc in party/pvp and PP be CC buff bot and bers out of party. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by Donkihot

[FryderykChopin 853]

On 7/30/2020 at 4:43 PM, iAxZp said:

problem of archers is fatal, delete fatal and add them boostes that apply autoattacks. archers are not ment to be casters at my humble opinion.now we dont have archers, we have PR fataling x20 of how much an autoattack dmg is, so even with blessed souldshots the ONLY thing would change is prs hit harder while hawk and sr are UNplayable.

on a second thought DONT "delete it" just nerf it to worth using but not being main dmg

ditto.

[MoDoy 1772]

4 hours ago, Donkihot said:

the only difference from pp and wc, is heal. I dont see any points playing pp in dd party at all. Wc has all buffs, cov, gates, sleep/feer/stun + some dmg from flames. While pp, can try do some awkward dmg with might of heaven and try to root. 
yes, it is different play of style, you will have fun. But u will lose 1 pt vs 1 pt pvp, and your team mates wont be happy. and sooner or later they will replace u with better version of support. 
I see more ppl playing wc in party/pvp and PP be CC buff bot and bers out of party. 

you see? thats what i am talking about, people just look at the class, sees what ppl do with it and not check anything anymore

while WC wont be able to land any of the debuffs you mentioned, PP can still do block WW and block shield (removing those 2 effects have huge impact, especially if other party dont have active buffer or is not rebuffing properly against banes) and is much bigger heal support/mystic immunity, so in the end, first 2.5 minute of fight WC can do only thing and thats rebuffing (considering some of you die or get canceled), PP can do more during that time and when puri ends, for example for melee party or even archer party, root on enemy is much stronger than fear/sleep (thats the reason melee party used to run with SK in the party, because paralyzing target and making it immobile for your DDs so it cannot kite is much stronger effect than fearing them while your DDs have to chase target and never catch it)

in party vs party, you need to run PP box anyway, so instead of having PP box and main WC in party, you can have main PP in party and just make full rebuff from WC and kick him after CoV, i havent seen fight longer than 5 minutes for loooong time and even if the mass pvp goes for longer, probably there is big chance your alliance runs at least one OL which will do VoP for you, so you wont be missing this boost as well

Edited July 31, 2020 by MoDoy

[iAxZp 366]

6 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

you see? thats what i am talking about, people just look at the class, sees what ppl do with it and not check anything anymore

while WC wont be able to land any of the debuffs you mentioned, PP can still do block WW and block shield (removing those 2 effects have huge impact, especially if other party dont have active buffer or is not rebuffing properly against banes) and is much bigger heal support/mystic immunity, so in the end, first 2.5 minute of fight WC can do only thing and thats rebuffing (considering some of you die or get canceled), PP can do more during that time and when puri ends, for example for melee party or even archer party, root on enemy is much stronger than fear/sleep (thats the reason melee party used to run with SK in the party, because paralyzing target and making it immobile for your DDs so it cannot kite is much stronger effect than fearing them while your DDs have to chase target and never catch it)

in party vs party, you need to run PP box anyway, so instead of having PP box and main WC in party, you can have main PP in party and just make full rebuff from WC and kick him after CoV, i havent seen fight longer than 5 minutes for loooong time and even if the mass pvp goes for longer, probably there is big chance your alliance runs at least one OL which will do VoP for you, so you wont be missing this boost as well

now really u looking for player that will invest shitload of time and adena/money to play and no meta char on 5yrs old server? they wont bro, and even when i tried despite ppl dening it ended up pissing me of how much efford i've puted into a class it sucks compared to similar meta class

examples: sps over other mages
gladi over tyrant
se over ee(on this specific ppl just cant assist its to hard for them either click or hit sign idk maybe all bad and me pro or maybe i have outrageous demandings)

Edited July 31, 2020 by iAxZp

[MoDoy 1772]

1 minute ago, iAxZp said:

no1 really u looking for player that will invest shitload of time and adena/money to play and no meta char on 5yrs old server? they wont bro, and even when i tried despite ppl dening it ended up pissing me of how much efford i've puted into a class it sucks compared to similar meta class

idk, then maybe dont do it just to be different but in some vision of the class and make your mind why are you going to do something you decide  sure, it can fail and it wont work like you wanted, but i dont think it should be majority of cases if you think it through (btw, i still think gladiator in archer party would be LIT AS HECK and work perfectly)

all i am saying is that chance is there, i dont think my PW is meta, even while being hero, i am pretty sure non-hero tyrant would be like 2-3x better in any pvp we did in all this time, yet i wouldnt change it for tyrant, if FW were archer party, i bet i wouldnt be playing PR, coz i wouldnt really find it challenging or fun at all and i am pretty sure rizos would let me play it eventho SR would be FAR from meta

its all about what you want to play

[iAxZp 366]

1 minute ago, MoDoy said:

idk, then maybe dont do it just to be different but in some vision of the class and make your mind why are you going to do something you decide  sure, it can fail and it wont work like you wanted, but i dont think it should be majority of cases if you think it through (btw, i still think gladiator in archer party would be LIT AS HECK and work perfectly)

all i am saying is that chance is there, i dont think my PW is meta, even while being hero, i am pretty sure non-hero tyrant would be like 2-3x better in any pvp we did in all this time, yet i wouldnt change it for tyrant, if FW were archer party, i bet i wouldnt be playing PR, coz i wouldnt really find it challenging or fun at all and i am pretty sure rizos would let me play it eventho SR would be FAR from meta

its all about what you want to play

i want to play somekind of smart setup but i dont have luxury of testing things when i am behind... i hope some1 else does

[ProGressive 740]

The problem there is no easy fix to archers. Nothing good to take from other chronicles and add to boost them, because their stats are clunky. Just too weak in general. And to play as a caster we face same problem as with gladi, mana ends pretty fast and too slow. 

Imagine there would be this song and dance to protect from arrows  

 

Everyone knows that archer with full gear(epics, OE bows and bla bla bla) should be insanely strong, but here its not how it goes.

Only place where i remember archers being strong, was long siege fights where everyone ran out of mana. But literally thats it.

 

Im not playing here enough to feel current state of the game, but from videos, in game bossing and other stuff around, Im almost sure there is literally one or two CPs of archers in whole server. (Might be wrong offcourse) that only shows that even full buffed competitive parties dont choose them.

End game content for solo ranged non sustainable class also sad. 

[Rizos 1487]

Mby ill play ppga main coś i lost aw? Hmmmm

[JzOo 171]

11 minutes ago, Rizos said:

Mby ill play ppga main coś i lost aw? Hmmmm

Best choice

[iAxZp 366]

16 minutes ago, Rizos said:

Mby ill play ppga main coś i lost aw? Hmmmm

Want my se? But doesn't have mana gain

[Rizos 1487]

3 minutes ago, iAxZp said:

Want my se? But doesn't have mana gain

Its not hero, fk it. Or is it?

[iAxZp 366]

4 minutes ago, Rizos said:

Its not hero, fk it. Or is it?

It is ahahahahahhahaah 102 pts hero se roflmao

[Ovid 17]

I always thought that WC is chosen, in PP's detriment, because he has VR and can buff the entire party in ~1min. Whereas the PP has to target 1 by 1, which is a bit time consuming, especially during some pvp.

 

Do you guys think that, if/when the new update comes, the addition of the Jin Kamael archer will freshen things up a bit?

Edited August 2, 2020 by Ovid

[MoDoy 1772]

8 hours ago, Ovid said:

I always thought that WC is chosen, in PP's detriment, because he has VR and can buff the entire party in ~1min. Whereas the PP has to target 1 by 1, which is a bit time consuming, especially during some pvp.

 

Do you guys think that, if/when the new update comes, the addition of the Jin Kamael archer will freshen things up a bit?

most of the end game parties box PP anyway to rebuff some buffs like bts/CC, so you can still box WC to rebuff full party and just finish with active PP

during pvp, not many times you actually need to rebuff whole party but only 1 guy who dies or loses something (lets say bishop loses acumen, you have to give it to all for more mana than when you buff it to 1 guy from PP)

On 8/1/2020 at 8:34 AM, ProGressive said:

The problem there is no easy fix to archers. Nothing good to take from other chronicles and add to boost them, because their stats are clunky. Just too weak in general. And to play as a caster we face same problem as with gladi, mana ends pretty fast and too slow. 

[ProGressive 740]

2 hours ago, MoDoy said:

most of the end game parties box PP anyway to rebuff some buffs like bts/CC, so you can still box WC to rebuff full party and just finish with active PP

during pvp, not many times you actually need to rebuff whole party but only 1 guy who dies or loses something (lets say bishop loses acumen, you have to give it to all for more mana than when you buff it to 1 guy from PP)

And die from reflect.

[Donkihot 114]

it might be stupid question, but I never thought about it.

Can be reflected dmg be reflected back ?

Edited August 2, 2020 by Donkihot

[FryderykChopin 853]

1 hour ago, Donkihot said:

it might be stupid question, but I never thought about it.

Can be reflected dmg be reflected back ?

200 IQ question actually, but then real question is... Can you reflect the damage reflected from your reflection?

[Ovid 17]

I don't think reflected damage can be reflected back.

But let's say it can. Then it would only be 20% (or whatever numbers the buffs have) given back, and from that amount 20% given back again, until it nullifies or gets too low to even matter. 

[MoDoy 1772]

16 hours ago, ProGressive said:

And die from reflect.

you usually dont die from 1 reflect skill, for example on mages its usually the second AoE you use right after first one or when you use AoE, you are in middle of enemies which finish you off on low HP, archer has bigger HP pool and if its from bigger range, i dont think that would be problem

[ProGressive 740]

2 hours ago, MoDoy said:

you usually dont die from 1 reflect skill, for example on mages its usually the second AoE you use right after first one or when you use AoE, you are in middle of enemies which finish you off on low HP, archer has bigger HP pool and if its from bigger range, i dont think that would be problem

But is your aoe as powerfull as archer skill with 16 667 power?

Still we are getting off my point. My point is that something is wrong with class stats and thats it. IDK how to explain this, but archers just feels week. Low pdef, low HP pool and low damage.

Only way to play archer is Silver Knight style... True story.

Edited August 3, 2020 by ProGressive

[Rizos 1487]

4 hours ago, ProGressive said:

But is your aoe as powerfull as archer skill with 16 667 power?

Still we are getting off my point. My point is that something is wrong with class stats and thats it. IDK how to explain this, but archers just feels week. Low pdef, low HP pool and low damage.

Only way to play archer is Silver Knight style... True story.

was it different on skelth?

[ProGressive 740]

13 hours ago, Rizos said:

was it different on skelth?

Skelth p*zdec, better don't take anything from it  

I don't want to compare tr9y videos because everyone is always "Oh he has items bla bla bla", but face it, on club people also have items and it is not working like that. U just rush archers and crush their ass. Maybe something changed during 2-3 years that i don't play, but i doubt from amount of archers I see in the server. In general they are too weak, and if club manages to boost dorf, I think archers should have chance as well.(don't know about mages tho)

It just feels that either damage needs boost, because low pdef and low hp pool, means huge reflect and low survivability, so need compensation in damage. Or either give something to survive fights longer.  

Maybe adding triggers from H5 might be some boost actually, if not too op. U can put all triggers on all. If too op, remove from some archers. Dunno. Maybe stats are wrong.

Remember fatal when it was wrong here? Fatal is now boosted and still no freaking PR parties. Imagine PR would have old fatal   

Played archers on NA classic, on EU essence - they are good.

All in all im just saying that if i could, i would try to make some changes to weaker classes for more different CP setups.

To have like Mages vs Assasins vs Warriors is perfect server dream? Going full tank setup sounds not funny QQ

 

[Rizos 1487]

1 hour ago, ProGressive said:

Skelth p*zdec, better don't take anything from it  

I don't want to compare tr9y videos because everyone is always "Oh he has items bla bla bla", but face it, on club people also have items and it is not working like that. U just rush archers and crush their ass. Maybe something changed during 2-3 years that i don't play, but i doubt from amount of archers I see in the server. In general they are too weak, and if club manages to boost dorf, I think archers should have chance as well.(don't know about mages tho)

It just feels that either damage needs boost, because low pdef and low hp pool, means huge reflect and low survivability, so need compensation in damage. Or either give something to survive fights longer.  

Maybe adding triggers from H5 might be some boost actually, if not too op. U can put all triggers on all. If too op, remove from some archers. Dunno. Maybe stats are wrong.

Remember fatal when it was wrong here? Fatal is now boosted and still no freaking PR parties. Imagine PR would have old fatal   

Played archers on NA classic, on EU essence - they are good.

All in all im just saying that if i could, i would try to make some changes to weaker classes for more different CP setups.

To have like Mages vs Assasins vs Warriors is perfect server dream? Going full tank setup sounds not funny QQ

 

Triggers from h5 are added right now. They are decent but activation chance is very low

There are many problems affecting mostly archers/daggers and AOE classes.

1) There are many skils bugged - mostly destro skills(fatal strike, hammer crush, armor crush, 80 skill) and raging force/sonic raging these skills - especially raging skils hit way too strong (around 2x too strong), skills like double shot and stunshot are also a bit too strong but difference is much lower (5-15%) compared to raging. I figured it out by making official forum skill dmg tests on our test server/based on official videos. I reported all suspicious skills to admins, dunno what is progress but its huge changes in class balancing.

2) Now because of problem from 1) some classes are considered as OP - especially Tyrants. Imagine You do 2x more dmg with spamable skill than you should. This gives big NO to blessed soulshots which were common on official and were giving any chance for meeles/archers to compete vs mages. 
We cant implement bless shots because of bugged warriors -> archers, daggers sux -> ppl qq -> every1 play mages or tyrants, circle closes

3) Broken mages - Mages were broken as hell, and untill some months ago they also were bugged dealing 30% more dmg than supposed to do. Yep check sjeks movie - 2-3k nuke dmg w/o m crit and 7k crits, while receiving 1-2k dmg from enemies being elemental mage. The bugged dmg was luckily fixed but still, for some reason this server loves mages. There are SOESes +12 and BOPs +12 being daily sold. Some1 may ask whats the problem mages have +12 gun and archers have +12 gun

Problem is Mage skils scale with m atk much better than p atk on archer skils. Basically mage dmg is miltiplication of m atk and skill power, while on fighters skill dmg is sum of p atk and skil power. Guess what, multiplication is much stronger scaling than sum. Now imagine chance of enchanting mage weapons is 50% and fighter weapons 66% ( to balance out fact mage skills scale with dmg better than fighter weapons)  chance to make +12 soes is 0.2%, chance of making bop +17 is 0.2% - on our server you can buy bop +13 for price of soes +12.

Another problem is there is no problem to buy +8 armors but for some reason there is no way to buy jvls better than +6 - yep lets give another advantage to mages

Another example of linemage is there are no armors with m def bonus like drake set being sold on AH - dont ask me why

4) Problem of cc and cop. Server rate is high, bosses give insane exp, last time i started new char from 0 i made 70 lvl in 3 days - no it wasnt x2 exp weekend. Every1 who plays here for some time, made wc 79, pp 80 and just use these bufs and reduce dagger/archer dmg by half. When you watch official movies its mostly OP partys vs lower lvl plebs - lower lvl plebs have no cc/cop so dmg looks much higher

5) problem of p def - there is bug that 1 item body armor like doom has more p def than on official. Take bw hvy set and doom hvy set - 1 has bp + pants, 2nd has 1 item body. when you sum up p def of whole doom set and bw set you will get same result but when you equip them, doom will have like 50 more p def than bw in your character stats - most of good sets have 1 item body - most of ppl have more p def than on official - bug reported long time ago

6) Server meta - dunno why but most of ppl especially in china play tank setups. Sh1tloads of DAs paladins 80, bards, ols, etc. Dunno why but in general 80% of their chars are high hp/p def classes. Perfect counter for archers/daggers and aoe classes

7) AOE classes problem - items like hero cloak, core ring, olympiad defence talisman (items with pvp dmg rediction) should reduce not only dmg dealt to you by enemy but also dmg reflected to you by hiting enemy, on our server these items reduce dmg to you but dont retuce reflect dmg, next problem is point 5) and point 3) and point 6) which cause ppl around have higher p def. What p def has to do with reflect? A lot. Reflect dmg is capped. You can not reflect more dmg than your char p def + shield p def. Lets say you have 1k p def and 200 p def shield, that means if some1 hit you for 10k, even if you have 40% reflect bufs, you will reflect max 1200 dmg. This point in general leads aoe classes get more reflect dmg than on official - reported also

[ProGressive 740]

1 hour ago, Rizos said:

...

Well as i said, i cannot exactly say whats bugged or wrong, but it feels that heavy users are way stronger which brings archers/daggers to suck ballz, and community even more to play mellee. Not only because of bosses and farming zones, but as well as spamable skills with insane damage, easy gapclosers and so on.

Well mage things not changing from 1.0 I guess. Strong, simple, cheap.

Yesterday saw sjeks movie on sorc, nothing more to add Even tanks burning.

 

[Rizos 1487]

36 minutes ago, ProGressive said:

Well as i said, i cannot exactly say whats bugged or wrong, but it feels that heavy users are way stronger which brings archers/daggers to suck ballz, and community even more to play mellee. Not only because of bosses and farming zones, but as well as spamable skills with insane damage, easy gapclosers and so on.

Well mage things not changing from 1.0 I guess. Strong, simple, cheap.

Yesterday saw sjeks movie on sorc, nothing more to add Even tanks burning.

 

About dmg from magic skils, you can even make WC work as DD

And hero mage balance