Blade dancer

[Reddish 258]

You are supportive character with decent offtank abilities, u are not the tank. Same goes for any healer. Yes, they are hard to kill for melee, but there are tactics to counter high pdef. 
Comparing light and hvy pdef by just defence stats isn't right. That's why there are additional modifiers like  godly crit dmg reduction for crappy evasion for light.
 

[MoDoy 1772]

25 minutes ago, darksinger said:

bro take +12 con in any class and u will see the same hp... 

bd out dyes lvl 78 4198 hp

EE out dyes lvl 78 3312 hp

less 1k diference.

that "less 1k difference" is actually 26% boost of HP, thats almost like having extra btb or vitality song

[Reddish 258]

4 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

that "less 1k difference" is actually 26% boost of HP, thats almost like having extra btb or vitality song

And actually it is boosted by those buffs. What is 1k now is 5-6k full buffed.
Our EE has full buffed like 8.5k HP vs 14k BD.
Plus I doubt there is 1k difference. Depending on DYE builds which can be different for EE box or EE who plays live.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Reddish

[Reddish 258]

reserved for further counter argument

Edited July 24, 2020 by Reddish

[sung 10]

8 hours ago, Cyane said:

i agree about adding heavy armor mastery after lv 40+ (for both sws and bd). It was an official classic patch change, antharas i think*

This resumes all
Everyone is arguing for the sake of argue, but reality is, Bards are supposed to get this boost eventually in p.def

[Rizos 1487]

Why exactly p def is problem of bd? 

[iAxZp 366]

i still dont get point of this conv. if a patch add bards pdef in next updates then when time is bds/sws will get it. Is really a big deal this p.def mastery? NOP ITS just a joke for dummy bds pretend to be mages or archers. IF YOU ARE glass cannon BD you dont expect to aggro and survive,you just hit and debuff. if you play tank bard u put urself full con and doom +6 hv set, switch to dagger with supersigel p.def+shield after every time u s/d and u agro without any problem even mages as long as ur jewels are decent. 

[darksinger 58]

18 hours ago, Rizos said:

Why exactly p def is problem of bd? 

Not exactly p. Def. Just a bad class. All other classes can be good in olly like stun, fear, etc etc. The únic skills of bd have a shit chance, for exemple poison dont work good, arrest also bad chance and u cant use arrest before the first end, but se PP can do IT. Is little detalls of this class to be not good to play. 

We need a bônus in some New skill or Change the old skills but actualy not good

Edited July 25, 2020 by darksinger

[Rizos 1487]

8 hours ago, darksinger said:

Not exactly p. Def. Just a bad class. All other classes can be good in olly like stun, fear, etc etc. The únic skills of bd have a shit chance, for exemple poison dont work good, arrest also bad chance and u cant use arrest before the first end, but se PP can do IT. Is little detalls of this class to be not good to play. 

We need a bônus in some New skill or Change the old skills but actualy not good

so dont boost him stat he doesnt need, better add smth else to him

[darksinger 58]

16 minutes ago, Rizos said:

so dont boost him stat he doesnt need, better add smth else to him

In the first Post i say sugestions and all daggers come Here to Flame the heavy armor mastery hehehe 

[Fortuna 112]

Why does bd even need a boost in the first place? ... If the argument is that it's aboring class for you, then simply leave it. His role is active enough with aggro/arrest/slow spam. You can even spam deadly strikes if your set up needs it. 

[RazorWind 1]

It's probably a sensitive topic for me to comment on, since I'm a Bladedancer myself and people love to point fingers, but I get OP's main critic:

if you think about MMOs and RPG dynamics in general, it's indeed quite unthinkable that a caster/support/priest-like class wearing leather/light armor would have more physical defense than a half-tank (let's not forget that BDs shares their first class with SKs, which put both classes together on the progression tree) wearing plate/heavy armor.

I'm not saying OP's proposal of solution is the best, as many people have already pointed in this thread, but this should be definitely a point worth of the staff's attention if class balancing was ever an issue they are willing to address.

[darksinger 58]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:44 AM, JzOo said:

There was Dance of Motion (self dance) or whatever it called in h5 thta gives pdef/mdef maybe should add this one for bd class to get some balance

This is the Best Option, couse he need time to make his dps from poison bleed and this dance will give the time to be it good. 

[MoDoy 1772]

13 hours ago, darksinger said:

Not exactly p. Def. Just a bad class. All other classes can be good in olly like stun, fear, etc etc. The únic skills of bd have a shit chance, for exemple poison dont work good, arrest also bad chance and u cant use arrest before the first end, but se PP can do IT. Is little detalls of this class to be not good to play. 

We need a bônus in some New skill or Change the old skills but actualy not good

first of all - arrest land rate is actually really good, yes, its bad if enemy has orfen 3 and you dont, because it gives hold resistance, which once again is eliminated if you also get orfen 3, you cannot complain you dont land debuffs in fight epics vs no epics, that makes 0 sense in term of balancing

second of all - PP/SE has exactly same mechanic for root like BD/SWS has on arrest, which means they also have to wait until debuff disappears and then cast it again, so this kind of complain is also really bad

if your complaint is about olympiad, then depending on which arena you get, i believe all these match ups are winnable (except probably vs top kek stacked people on those classes), not saying you are favorite in those match ups, but you can win those matches - thats 14 classes out of 31, is it really that bad?

WL, PK, TH, HE, sorc, sws, PW, SR, sps, AW, PR, sph, spoil, craft

[darksinger 58]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:44 AM, JzOo said:

There was Dance of Motion (self dance) or whatever it called in h5 thta gives pdef/mdef maybe should add this one for bd class to get some balance

If add this skill to hight or a other skill just on hight lvl to give just the beneficie to Main BDs and not for all box BDs can be good. Just when the ppl realy want play BD get the Bonus from the balanced, and if are just a box will be The same

[iAxZp 366]

4 hours ago, MoDoy said:

first of all - arrest land rate is actually really good, yes, its bad if enemy has orfen 3 and you dont, because it gives hold resistance, which once again is eliminated if you also get orfen 3, you cannot complain you dont land debuffs in fight epics vs no epics, that makes 0 sense in term of balancing

second of all - PP/SE has exactly same mechanic for root like BD/SWS has on arrest, which means they also have to wait until debuff disappears and then cast it again, so this kind of complain is also really bad

if your complaint is about olympiad, then depending on which arena you get, i believe all these match ups are winnable (except probably vs top kek stacked people on those classes), not saying you are favorite in those match ups, but you can win those matches - thats 14 classes out of 31, is it really that bad?

WL, PK, TH, HE, sorc, sws, PW, SR, sps, AW, PR, sph, spoil, craft

TO WIN these classes with bd need debuffing setup not argo bot setup tho. u lose ur utility as agroer in order to win some matches in oly  imo.

[darksinger 58]

9 hours ago, RazorWind said:

I'm not saying OP's proposal of solution is the best, as many people have already pointed in this thread, but this should be definitely a point worth of the staff's attention if class balancing was ever an issue they are willing to address.

yes, the point is the ADM check if it is balanced or not and check what is good or not to enter in the server.

for exemple when the phanton ranger was verry OP and the ppl dont play another class they give skills to the another archers to balance the class couse was realy bad.

this buff was not enough to be archers competitive but I see more ppl playng this class.

If the heavy armor is the problem, BD have on kamael cronic the skill fighters will, this skill increce p.atak and atak.speed active like great fury or some passive skill like winsdon to be more resistent to this debuffs from this server. 

The ppl just play BD couse the CP need dances, but not couse the class is a good class do play...

I love BD from all cronics couse is balanced, but u cant let BD with the skills from interlud and just deadly strike and daggers with throwing dagger, shadow stap, clear moviment, critcal hound... u are talking about BD will be over power just couse have a heavy armor mastery, but u dont see how much gutti skills ur class have in ur class and we have a fuking Hex and a berseker dance when we can use just even 10 minuts. maybe in interlud BD can be more.

 

 

[MoDoy 1772]

39 minutes ago, darksinger said:

yes, the point is the ADM check if it is balanced or not and check what is good or not to enter in the server.

for exemple when the phanton ranger was verry OP and the ppl dont play another class they give skills to the another archers to balance the class couse was realy bad.

this buff was not enough to be archers competitive but I see more ppl playng this class.

If the heavy armor is the problem, BD have on kamael cronic the skill fighters will, this skill increce p.atak and atak.speed active like great fury or some passive skill like winsdon to be more resistent to this debuffs from this server. 

The ppl just play BD couse the CP need dances, but not couse the class is a good class do play...

I love BD from all cronics couse is balanced, but u cant let BD with the skills from interlud and just deadly strike and daggers with throwing dagger, shadow stap, clear moviment, critcal hound... u are talking about BD will be over power just couse have a heavy armor mastery, but u dont see how much gutti skills ur class have in ur class and we have a fuking Hex and a berseker dance when we can use just even 10 minuts. maybe in interlud BD can be more.

yeah, that goes for many classes, but guess what, BD is such a good class that actually every party/CP needs it. Is BD weak if the class is essential in ANY setup out there? i dont think so

its same like saying "buff paladin, its sh1t class", but half of setups are running with paladin, because its essential for the build right now

[darksinger 58]

8 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

yeah, that goes for many classes, but guess what, BD is such a good class that actually every party/CP needs it. Is BD weak if the class is essential in ANY setup out there? i dont think so

its same like saying "buff paladin, its sh1t class", but half of setups are running with paladin, because its essential for the build right now

yes, exactly. the ppl dont play this class couse is a good class, just couse the cp need.

the ppl dont talk "hey I will make a paladin couse is OP, I will be verry happy with this so much fun". No, the ppl make DA/SK couse is fun and after trade to pala couse the CP need.(I dont talk about TK couse take some buffs in the last weeks) but this classes no OP need to get a balance or will be like a paladin on my CP, kick bard, invite pala, give pala buff, dismiss, invite bard. 

The tru is, the ppl dont want this no OP classes on set up, just want his buffs and no more couse the classe is not balanced like the others.

[JzOo 171]

10 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

yeah, that goes for many classes, but guess what, BD is such a good class that actually every party/CP needs it. Is BD weak if the class is essential in ANY setup out there? i dont think so

its same like saying "buff paladin, its sh1t class", but half of setups are running with paladin, because its essential for the build right now

Dunno if we talk about decent party setups l2 classic is the worst example of all or at least this server. I saw only few partys that i can say they have decent setups all others run with 5-6 dd 2 tanks 1 healer... this is good setup if u know u win pvp with in few minutes but imagine fights would be longer and such setups would just dead numbers laying on the ground. I really miss those days where 9v9 last up to 10minutes and mass pvp up to 30min not what we have here but i this is l2 classic things and we need to adapt to it

[ProGressive 740]

After official added this patch of heavy mastery and other stuff, a lot of dead classes started being strong in oly.

For example BD was insane, he was killing people trough debuff resistant amulet, but it also happened because update brought all  New items from events, epics, cloaks, gems. Result - never debuffed. 
 

U cant say that if it was added on official it has to be added here. Because they also added a lot of stuff like, stun with sword, dual swords on dorf/wc/destro etc. 

Official added this pdef change, because on official some classes were passing insane pdef numbers, while bards not. So to put them a bit more of and off-tank they tryed to balance them. 

Comming back to topic about EE vs BD, if u go on EE light mastery, dont forget what EE sacrifices, huge mana pool and he dont get crit reduction, that means its harder in long fights. 

In my opinion we see one huge problem here.
Why bards are weak?
Why daggers are weak?

Because in server there are more heavy users than light users. Because archers too weak.  Same with farm zones, mellee is perfect to farm all farming zones, while other classes not.

Put on your bd +12 str duals/bow and remove agro from bar, will be better

Edited August 2, 2020 by ProGressive

[darksinger 58]

the atualization is coming! I will w8 for bd balance :v

[darksinger 58]

some ideas about bd/song 

bd realy need a buff... song its "ok" not perfect but ok.

this classes need to be able to fight in olly when u are not full epics top equipaments. (BD cant win 99% of machups iven with full epics and full equipaments)

also need to have a secundary funcion on pvp/pve songs cant make damage on pve/pvp and BD cant tank damage any class on olly iven if u have full A grade set +6

I am here again with new ideas to help this forgotten class

[Reddish 258]

Yup, lets just pull up different databases for different la2 chronicles and randomly post it here:)

Fix my Lethal to hit full HP/CP as it was on some Hellbound/Interlude, why not? 

I will explain: u should take the facts that are correlating with our server, atm it would be Antharas patch official patchnotes. Also rememer that GMs are not blindly following the officials as they do not want to ruin game as it was done there.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Reddish

[darksinger 58]

I was checking old posts and I must say how much I love u @San0 hahahahahaha

just miss my demonic blade dancer to make me completly loveled hahahahaha