Elemental Summoners...

[gfbot 207]

Will be absolutely insane if the summon changes go through. (Please Read thoroughly)

I'm only saying this because it is unfair warlocks and phantom summoners, (mostly phantom summoners, since they still wont be allowed in AOE groups).

Unicorn Seraphim (AT LEVEL 58) gives you or a party member 20 minutes of:
Empower 3
Acumen 3 
Clarity
Wild Magic (given at a higher level)

With the clarity and recharge pet, you literally never run out of mana. 

You can nuke literally everything to death.
I've pved for 20 mins on the PTS in EV @ level 58 and still could go for another 40 mins without taking a break. (+3 demon staff / + 8 wit / + 4 int)

Feline Kitten and Nightshade give no where near the amount of power.
Queen doesn't increase kill speed except for haste 2, and Nightshade buffs are negligible. 

Not only are you given the BEST/FASTEST solo exp in the game with not needing a buffer, but you are welcome to join almost any LOA party. 

You guys intended these summons to be party oriented, so I am curious if you overlooked this aspect. 

I don't know how it will work out in SoS, since I can't test anything in that zone yet, but its looking to be pretty broken. 

Do I still have that free class change coupon? lol

[datplays 191]

Dude, u got lost?

• Summon Feline Queen - Warlock (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)
• Summon Seraphim the Unicorn - Elemental Summoner (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)
• Summon Nightshade - Phantom Summoner (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)

 (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)

re u sure u re testing only lvl 6 pet? So those skills re only lvl 2?

And where do u test that, coz i do not see those pets aviable on our Test Server. Is it even Classic where u test this?

EDIT:
I dont think anybody gonna change pet every 20min coz every pet cost 8 Spirit Ore. Spirit Ore is not cheap


Nothing is said yet. Before live 1.5 theres run on test server, which is not even there yet. Administration knows what they do, if smthing gonna be "too much" its not gonna be introduced like this. Atm u re basing on some test server which is not even our test server, and making QQ thread before it ever happened even on test server.
It's not rational at all.
U re starting another shtstorm about changes in summoner classes.

[Rinzler 2]

Okay let's see if I'm understanding. The months yourself raised the banner of Summoners, claiming they are useless, no chance to get a slot in a party. With the coming of the news was one of the first to advocate the changes. And now simply decides to contradict? The same changes were advocated now become harmful? It's because? Because you believe that your class will not be the most benefit? And from where you took a Elemental Summoner can attack this level? With what? Their deadly spells 1st JOB? Please, less egotism and narcissism. All will have their seats. Calm down and wait.

[Kure 444]

How exactly will be warlocks allowed in aoe groups? as far as i know the crit chance/power doesnt apply to skills so their usefullness in that groups are discutable. 

Where did you test it? I have some idea if is it possible to PS be in the role of tank (or just mass debuffer p./m.def if there is a tank) in aoe group.. 

I think the best progress by this patch will be for PS, bcs now they have nothing and after that patch it will open lot of possibilities for them. ES can solo now too (true, without empower but still with infinite MP, so rest buff arent that big boost). I am glad that summoners will be boosted, you should be too.

And complaining that one of the "same class" is stronger.. well, i can complain too why glad has ranged and clsoe combat stun while tyr has only close combat ("same" class too), why necro has transfer pain summon while other nukers dont.. i can continue with comparations of "simialr classes" all the they but i belive you can get my point... 

[datplays 191]

How exactly will be warlocks allowed in aoe groups? as far as i know the crit chance/power doesnt apply to skills so their usefullness in that groups are discutable. 

Where did you test it? I have some idea if is it possible to PS be in the role of tank (or just mass debuffer p./m.def if there is a tank) in aoe group.. 

I think the best progress by this patch will be for PS, bcs now they have nothing and after that patch it will open lot of possibilities for them. ES can solo now too (true, without empower but still with infinite MP, so rest buff arent that big boost). I am glad that summoners will be boosted, you should be too.

And complaining that one of the "same class" is stronger.. well, i can complain too why glad has ranged and clsoe combat stun while tyr has only close combat ("same" class too), why necro has transfer pain summon while other nukers dont.. i can continue with comparations of "simialr classes" all the they but i belive you can get my point... 

​Warlock not in aoe. As far he can be in meele/archer party.
PS can be in aoe or any party reducing p.def/m.def - big advantage
ES can be in aoe or any party.

And the rest of ur post is right. 
Especially with complaining and comparsions. Out there re alrdy too OP classes that compared to any summoner in future re still OP.

[Koll 1233]

Was checking right now all this situation. 

Avadon set/Demon's Staff +0/wit +8/int +4 

Was killing mobs in EV.

Without any buff from pony = ~180 Mana on 1 mob.

With full buff from pony = ~140 Mana on 1 mob.

With EMP/Acumen/Wild Magic = ~150 Mana on 1 mob.

So because with clarity you spend 10% less mana, it's 15 mana saved per one mob.

[Kure 444]

I was checking some stuff on some free server (i will not name it, dont worry). It is H5 chronicle there, so results might be a little different but..,

You (as PS) have open new good posibilities. I was able to even SOLO aoe with nightshade and 35lvl aoe spell. I went to Ancient battleground , pulled 4-5 groups use mass curse of shade and used common tactic hit and run. Nightshade was not recieving lot of damage cos i was still on the move. I had valhalla +0 (acu) and DC set (i know, A grade set but with no dyes)... buffs only self / lvl1 potions. I lost like 1/3 MP, thats true.. but MP issues might not be that big with lvl 1 BTM/HP potions. But thats not the point what i want to say you can tank some smaller parties (in LOA you still need tank) but when you will have enough lvl to be able mass debuff mobs in loa you can join any aoe pt there (more easilly than warlock and to be honest i believe more easily than ES, bcs -20% m.def is better than some mana regen). 

So the situation is not that bad for you imo.

[datplays 191]

Just to say. Gfbot this time did mistake as we see, he had wrong info, wrong source and did wrong calculations not including whats its gonna be (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only).

Koll did reliable test proving that its nothing at all.

And yes Kure, PS can do aoe solo. He can do it even now. Somebody explained this on forum long time ago. Souless has corpse burst and some other aoe.
But forget bout now, think bout incoming Nightshade, u re right, PS in aoe party will be also welcome. So from all, TBH Warlocks looks the worst being capable into parties. Coz mostly meele/archer pt, not rly aoe.

[gfbot 207]

Dude, u got lost?

• Summon Feline Queen - Warlock (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)
• Summon Seraphim the Unicorn - Elemental Summoner (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)
• Summon Nightshade - Phantom Summoner (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)

 (max skill lvl available will be lvl 6 only so pet skills will be max lvl 2 only)

re u sure u re testing only lvl 6 pet? So those skills re only lvl 2?

And where do u test that, coz i do not see those pets aviable on our Test Server. Is it even Classic where u test this?

EDIT:
I dont think anybody gonna change pet every 20min coz every pet cost 8 Spirit Ore. Spirit Ore is not cheap


Nothing is said yet. Before live 1.5 theres run on test server, which is not even there yet. Administration knows what they do, if smthing gonna be "too much" its not gonna be introduced like this. Atm u re basing on some test server which is not even our test server, and making QQ thread before it ever happened even on test server.
It's not rational at all.
U re starting another shtstorm about changes in summoner classes.

There are 5 inaccurate assumptions in your post.  

1) Yes. Level 2 unicorn of seraph. 

2) We have a test server, search for the skill 'Summon Seraphim the Unicorn'. Take the one thats level 2. Not level 8, not level 10. LEVEL 2. 

3) One elder tree in ev drops 4k adena. It costs 1 spirit ore to summon seraphim. 6 for boxer. 1 for casting clarity from seraphim.

8 x 500 = 4000adena (How is this not cheap, are you level 20 or something???)

One mob for 20 minutes of buffs. Okay Ill take it. Thanks. 

4) They were referring to level 2 PARTY BUFFS. Not Self buffs. 

5) I'm always right. 

[gfbot 207]

Was checking right now all this situation. 

Avadon set/Demon's Staff +0/wit +8/int +4 

Was killing mobs in EV.

Without any buff from pony = ~180 Mana on 1 mob.

With full buff from pony = ~140 Mana on 1 mob.

With EMP/Acumen/Wild Magic = ~150 Mana on 1 mob.

So because with clarity you spend 10% less mana, it's 15 mana saved per one mob.

​Don't forget you can just spam mana recharge on your pet, and have the pony recharge you. 

Which makes it so you never run out of mana. 

Resulting in a ~50 mana net gain per recharge exchange with your pony. 

This interaction can happen every 6 seconds.

Resulting in 500 free mana every minute.

Every 20 minutes you get the 2 minute Seraphim pony buff which will more than cover the cost of switching summons / cubics every 15-20minutes.

[Kure 444]

Was checking right now all this situation. 

Avadon set/Demon's Staff +0/wit +8/int +4 

Was killing mobs in EV.

Without any buff from pony = ~180 Mana on 1 mob.

With full buff from pony = ~140 Mana on 1 mob.

With EMP/Acumen/Wild Magic = ~150 Mana on 1 mob.

So because with clarity you spend 10% less mana, it's 15 mana saved per one mob.

​Don't forget you can just spam mana recharge on your pet, and have the pony recharge you. 

Which makes it so you never run out of mana. 

Resulting in a ~50 mana net gain per recharge exchange with your pony. 

This interaction can happen every 6 seconds.

Resulting in 500 free mana every minute.

Every 20 minutes you get the 2 minute Seraphim pony buff which will more than cover the cost of switching summons / cubics every 15-20minutes.

​actually you dont need to recharge pony... you can just summon new one with full mp... you have your investment back after killing one mob and you save alot of time by that 

[gfbot 207]

Ok, I just don't you guys to scream "op, gm pls nerf" when I class transfer to elemental summoner and exploit the crap out of this. 

[kkthx 245]

Was checking right now all this situation. 

Avadon set/Demon's Staff +0/wit +8/int +4 

Was killing mobs in EV.

Without any buff from pony = ~180 Mana on 1 mob.

With full buff from pony = ~140 Mana on 1 mob.

With EMP/Acumen/Wild Magic = ~150 Mana on 1 mob.

So because with clarity you spend 10% less mana, it's 15 mana saved per one mob.

​Don't forget you can just spam mana recharge on your pet, and have the pony recharge you. 

Which makes it so you never run out of mana. 

Resulting in a ~50 mana net gain per recharge exchange with your pony. 

This interaction can happen every 6 seconds.

Resulting in 500 free mana every minute.

​Y i checked that and confirm that u can have infinite mana with Unicorn Seraphims Clarity buff + Unicorn Boxer mana recharge + recharge that Boxer with ur Pet Recharge spell.
That makes me kinda sad, coz idea of Buff Pets is nice, but this rly makes opportunity to just farm with nuke spell.

Idea:
Maybe making buffs that pets cast last 2min like the blessing does? This could avoid ppl picking out Buff Pets every 2min coz it would occur huge SO consumption. And it would be just used in parties where the job of summon with Buff Pet is buffing every 2min.
 

[FryderykChopin 853]

Yeah summoners are already top notch right now, not sure if they need to be any better... +1 to topic's idea, think about the summon changes once again...

[gfbot 207]

Yeah summoners are already top notch right now, not sure if they need to be any better... +1 to topic's idea, think about the summon changes once again...

​No, its just a controversial topic. I don't know why you think summoners are so good. From your post history, it seems like you're playing a EE, and have some vendetta against summoners. Go on the PTS and try killing some mobs playing a summoner class. Then ask yourself if you could do it solo for 500+ hours without going insane. I surely have. 

But, I am pretty sure your post is sarcastic. So whatever. 

Since @Kure mentioned they can just unsummon and resummon boxer / kat the cat everytime they run out of mana. I don't think its such a big deal anymore. All they really benefit from is empower 3. (Since acumen 2 / mana all can be bought via consumables.) 

I never said to nerf it in any of my posts. But dont get me wrong, it is insane. I do consider it a gimmick, and in no way how the class was supposed to be played, but I guess thats up to the gms to decide.

I have to try pveing with seraphim/boxer in the new Seal of Shilean to determine its viability. It might just be these few couple of levels its really good, then falls off since its a level 35 nuke. 

[FryderykChopin 853]

Yeah summoners are already top notch right now, not sure if they need to be any better... +1 to topic's idea, think about the summon changes once again...

​No, its just a controversial topic. I don't know why you think summoners are so good. From your post history, it seems like you're playing a EE, and have some vendetta against summoners. Go on the PTS and try killing some mobs playing a summoner class. Then ask yourself if you could do it solo for 500+ hours without going insane. I surely have. 

But, I am pretty sure your post is sarcastic. So whatever. 

Since @Kure mentioned they can just unsummon and resummon boxer / kat the cat everytime they run out of mana. I don't think its such a big deal anymore. All they really benefit from is empower 3. 

Since acumen 2 / mana all can be bought via consumables. But dont get me wrong, it is insane.

I have to try pveing with seraphim/boxer in the new Seal of Shilean to determine its viability. It might just be these few couple of levels its really good, then falls off since its a level 35 nuke. 

I still think summoners are killers on classic  I play mostly solo EE and I haven't gotten insane yet, I like to grind, it's relaxing 

[kkthx 245]

Yeah summoners are already top notch right now, not sure if they need to be any better... +1 to topic's idea, think about the summon changes once again...

 Go on the PTS and try killing some mobs playing a summoner class. Then ask yourself if you could do it solo for 500+ hours without going insane. I surely have. 

​Thats why the changes focus on possibility for those chars to enter any party, u re just focusing on this solo aspect.

[Kure 444]

Actually i really think that after this update the biggest boost (compared to situation now) would be for PS... then ES and warlock became the "third" (but still with big boost)... 

[FryderykChopin 853]

Yeah summoners are already top notch right now, not sure if they need to be any better... +1 to topic's idea, think about the summon changes once again...

 Go on the PTS and try killing some mobs playing a summoner class. Then ask yourself if you could do it solo for 500+ hours without going insane. I surely have. 

​Thats why the changes focus on possibility for those chars to enter any party, u re just focusing on this solo aspect.

​I see but I'd be probably afraid people could start taking the summoners as boxes which would be very negative 

[Poseidon 452]

solution

[datplays 191]

Summoner can farm very fast dps with infinite mana

[San0 2419]

the point we tried to explain is, they were able to do that before also. you could still go with pony/cat full mage mode and farm basicly non stop, the only difference is that now you will be useful in a party also, not only as solo farm char.

you could find a warlock farming like that at loa entrance for long time solo and just keep going not stoping, not much will change on this part. maybe they will be able to do it a bit faster then before on the pony case but thats it. 

the same you did on the video try now without the clarity and emp from pony, you will do the same just a bit slower.

considering you can allways resummon the pony for recharge, it doesnt rly matters if you have clairty or not becuz eitherway you have infinite MP.

Edited June 10, 2016 by San0

[Koll 1233]

@Koll ok i was sceptical bout this, but i run it on test server

​Nothing stopping you from doing same on live with SE at dualbox.

[Itamaro 2]

news of the year?

Actually i really think that after this update the biggest boost (compared to situation now) would be for PS... 

pfff.... how??? PS still has nothing for party except mass summon phantom cubic . Have no idea what parties need it with all this AoE s*@t...

[San0 2419]

phantom summoner has AOE debuff with aggro reduce p def and m def. its the best of the pets for a AOE party actualy.

and it also has a pretty decent heal.

 

Edited June 10, 2016 by San0