Classic meta

[realKingLeonidas 159]

I just want to make a statement to the current meta in l2 Classic.I dont came here to ask for any fix or any nerf/buff just to confirm some matters.
1)Wit +12.So we have the mages which can add up to +12 Wit and can have Cast Speed and MC rate equal to Pow+Siren setup even they dont need to buff theirselvs.
2)Con modifier on stuns doesnt work at all
3)Resistance buffs doesnt exist or (for them they exist)their resist rate is so minimal cannot be noticed
4)DEBUFF REFRESH : In my opinion the worst and the One finger Users favorite thing.You can refresh the debuffs nonstop and dont give the opportunity to the opposite site to show some skills in this seconds the debuff worn off to show some reaction plays..
5)Fatal Counter.For me its the first time in my 12y of experience that a tank can get 2shot from archer class.Tanks used to be counterclass on archers back in the L2
6)Debuffs land rate is customised to the most players beliefs rather than the games protocol.NO one can be immune or vulnerable to debuffs( in same level ,same setup)  but there is always good or bad %.But never 0 or 100% chance.And many debuffs has 100% Chance to succeed.

Conclusion:We must all understand that this is not L2.This is not how L2 was built for.This is another game.A game that dont express who is better player but who got better equipment.Sorry for being so straight to my views but whats the point in all this?I dont cry nor say to buff/nerf anything just i want a good reason that supports the classic client system.

Edited May 21, 2017 by realKingLeonidas

[gfbot 207]

7)afk bot blazing swamp for 6 months

[BlackJack 574]

Actually in previous chronicles when CC was mostly useless or outshined by damage spam it was all about gear and levels/enchanted stuff and epics. Here it's mostly about skill. A lower level party can defeat a highier level one or much better equipped party with skill and proper CC. Pretty much all your points are wrong.

 And just to humor myself ill debunk all your points one by one:

1) Without the current cast speed mages would be completely unplayable. Also mage crit damage is much weaker compared to older chronicles to off set the fact that you crit more often. So yes you crit more often but it's for much lower damage compared to before which i'd say is the btter way to go, cuze dying to random mage crits before was rly fucking stupid.

2) Not sure about con but wit works and it adds like 2-5% resistances. It's just the values are much lower so the even in testing it's hard to judge. You can look up at official tests on GK and see that they work.

3) Completely false. Mental shield as an example works perfectly after the last fix 4-5months ago and adds exactly 50% MORE resistance. I.e As a necro my silence goes from 90% to 45% land rate and my fear goes from 70% to 35%. Casting fear with less than 30% chance to land is pretty much waste of time and would just promote damage spam fest like in old chronicles. Also debuffs will get weaker with 3rd class skills in 2.0.

4) Not true even with epics on i can't chain fear people with only mental due to CD. DA is pretty much the only char that can chain fear since DA horror has better land rate than other fears. Also it's a team game, it was never ever balanced 1v1 and it never will be.

5) A DA ur level probably has total of 18-20k effective hp. You are implying a PR can give u 2x 10k with FC, which doesnt even happen on robes unless the PR is on 10% at which point he could die to reflect. As a matter of fact i bet a PR your level can't kill u in 5 fatal counters which would take 25sec to cast. And in the meantime you have insane CC and could probably kill him.

6.) Everything you said was stupid but it was also barely understandable so whatever.

In conclusion: No wonder you don't know how the game works when you spend 99% of the time botting in blazing swamp near the channel. 100% debuff landrate.. lol..

Edited May 21, 2017 by BlackJack

[MoDoy 1772]

1 hour ago, realKingLeonidas said:

2)Con modifier on stuns doesnt work at all

screenshot from like 4 months ago when people asked san0 if CON actually gives stun resistance, all three values were for different CON values
http://pix.my/nhLIEN

1 hour ago, realKingLeonidas said:

3)Resistance buffs doesnt exist or (for them they exist)their resist rate is so minimal cannot be noticed

mental shield, resist shock lvl 4, guts, lion heart, zealot (this one looks bugged, it doesnt give 80%, but for sure it gives noticable resist) and at 2.0 u get prophecies and chant of spirit for more debuff resistance, all of these are noticable boost to resist debuffs

1 hour ago, realKingLeonidas said:

4)DEBUFF REFRESH : In my opinion the worst and the One finger Users favorite thing.You can refresh the debuffs nonstop and dont give the opportunity to the opposite site to show some skills in this seconds the debuff worn off to show some reaction plays..

this doesnt work in general, not all skills are overwritten (e.g. u cannot root-lock or sleep-lock) and as well the stuns which deal damage are bugged(?!?), because they can cancel their own effect with same shot, so even if it lands, u might not get stun debuff

1 hour ago, realKingLeonidas said:

5)Fatal Counter.For me its the first time in my 12y of experience that a tank can get 2shot from archer class.Tanks used to be counterclass on archers back in the L2

DA crying FC is OP, nothing else to add, this has nothing to do with our server but how NCsoft made it

1 hour ago, realKingLeonidas said:

6)Debuffs land rate is customised to the most players beliefs rather than the games protocol.NO one can be immune or vulnerable to debuffs( in same level ,same setup)  but there is always good or bad %.But never 0 or 100% chance.And many debuffs has 100% Chance to succeed.

there is way to be 100% immune to debuffs, so i wont even comment at this point, mind giving example on which skill has customized land rate compared to official? i am pretty sure if u can give valid proof, it will be changed so it wont be "customized" but fixed how its on official

also atm only skill which has 100% land rate is stigma, because its classified as another type of debuff (same type as real target on archers in 2.0)

1 hour ago, realKingLeonidas said:

Conclusion:We must all understand that this is not L2.This is not how L2 was built for.This is another game.A game that dont express who is better player but who got better equipment

havent heard such a bullsh1t in long time, yes, equip helps like it was in every single chronicle, but with good gameplay u can easily beat each of those things
1) higher lvl guys
2) better equipped guys
3) more number of guys

[qloc01 207]

modification of mental shield from our server is not so right, in our admins mind it sound ok, but from real experiences i think its not, becoz they never suffer from 1 minute silence from a top lv ovl, in 2.0 debuff duration time will get reduced by a half, it means if with how mental shield shoul work on offcial, we will have only 15s of silence, 5s of fear, 15s of root. 

i really hope that san0 and his staff could afford more time to rework mental shield

[MoDoy 1772]

14 minutes ago, qloc01 said:

modification of mental shield from our server is not so right, in our admins mind it sound ok, but from real experiences i think its not, becoz they never suffer from 1 minute silence from a top lv ovl, in 2.0 debuff duration time will get reduced by a half, it means if with how mental shield shoul work on offcial, we will have only 15s of silence, 5s of fear, 15s of root. 

i really hope that san0 and his staff could afford more time to rework mental shield

mental shield shouldnt reduce debuff duration like that? what real experience shows that?

[realKingLeonidas 159]

47 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

screenshot from like 4 months ago when people asked san0 if CON actually gives stun resistance, all three values were for different CON values
http://pix.my/nhLIEN

mental shield, resist shock lvl 4, guts, lion heart, zealot (this one looks bugged, it doesnt give 80%, but for sure it gives noticable resist) and at 2.0 u get prophecies and chant of spirit for more debuff resistance, all of these are noticable boost to resist debuffs

this doesnt work in general, not all skills are overwritten (e.g. u cannot root-lock or sleep-lock) and as well the stuns which deal damage are bugged(?!?), because they can cancel their own effect with same shot, so even if it lands, u might not get stun debuff

DA crying FC is OP, nothing else to add, this has nothing to do with our server but how NCsoft made it

there is way to be 100% immune to debuffs, so i wont even comment at this point, mind giving example on which skill has customized land rate compared to official? i am pretty sure if u can give valid proof, it will be changed so it wont be "customized" but fixed how its on official

also atm only skill which has 100% land rate is stigma, because its classified as another type of debuff (same type as real target on archers in 2.0)

havent heard such a bullsh1t in long time, yes, equip helps like it was in every single chronicle, but with good gameplay u can easily beat each of those things
1) higher lvl guys
2) better equipped guys
3) more number of guys

First of all my slovakian diving champion listen up.Resistance buffs DO NOT EXIST exept Unholy-holy resist.When you wake up in the morning and you go to fill your bread with butter you MUST fill it in the bread and not to your eyes.
2)Stuns,fears can lock.And with propability of 90-100% most of them.Dont say me or write me b****its because i own you every day and every night i came here to not trol nor fightl but to quote the current meta of this game that it is called Lineage 2 Classic Club.
3), i never cry for FC is OP.I just said that i never saw (in any client from C3 to GoD Glory days )tank to get twoshot by archer exept from lethalshot.(a away different skill)
4),ALL range stuns (Stun Shot,Quick spear,Gladis Stun),Paralyze of necro,paralyze of SK) lands with propability of 99% in same level equip.Stop the drugs(You forgot that agro is 100% oh lakemodoy oh oh oh)
5)And the most important part.You claim this chronicle needs fingers the same as previous chronicles.What can i say about you..I think its your first server/client ever played.Now i understand.Any experienced guy who used to play previous chronicles on their max skill potential will understand anything

Edited May 21, 2017 by realKingLeonidas

[Arcanum 312]

i honestly have yet to understand what this thread is about.

[MoDoy 1772]

14 minutes ago, realKingLeonidas said:

First of all my slovakian diving champion listen up.Resistance buffs DO NOT EXIST exept Unholy-holy resist.When you wake up in the morning and you go to fill your bread with butter you MUST fill it in the bread and not to your eyes.
2)Stuns,fears can lock.And with propability of 90-100% most of them.Dont say me or write me b****its because i own you every day and every night i came here to not trol nor fightl but to quote the current meta of this game that it is called Lineage 2 Classic Club.
3), i never cry for FC is OP.I just said that i never saw (in any client from C3 to GoD Glory days )tank to get twoshot by archer exept from lethalshot.(a away different skill)
4),ALL range stuns (Stun Shot,Quick spear,Gladis Stun),Paralyze of necro,paralyze of SK) lands with propability of 99% in same level equip.Stop the drugs(You forgot that agro is 100% oh lakemodoy oh oh oh)
5)And the most important part.You claim this chronicle needs fingers the same as previous chronicles.What can i say about you..I think its your first server/client ever played.Now i understand.Any experienced guy who used to play previous chronicles on their max skill potential will understand anything

there arent attribute resistance buffs because there is no attribute system
u dont own me everyday, in fact, since the day u feared me into the water when i didnt have mental shield i havent even met u, i just sat on nice carpet made by your cp at abg yday
debuff chance in game is capped at 90%, eventho some skills have higher base land rate (e.g. horror has 110% land rate chance), that will result only after u get mental or another debuff resistance buff (e.g. with mental it has 55% chance), however w/o mental its still 90%
i believe there are more debuffs like that, so i didnt forget just aggression, i just gave example  

yep, definitely my first server and chronicle, i wonder if u got all these idea behind this topic from your top kek playing on some greek interlude servers, where u botted even harder than here, but sure it was challenging chronicle, AA on fighters, 1 nuke on mages

PS: suggestion topic is to discuss things people come with, u dont have to write butthurt relpies just because i gave my opinion and my view on what u "suggested" (eventho i cannot find suggestion here, so idk why u put it in here)

[BlackJack 574]

57 minutes ago, qloc01 said:

modification of mental shield from our server is not so right, in our admins mind it sound ok, but from real experiences i think its not, becoz they never suffer from 1 minute silence from a top lv ovl, in 2.0 debuff duration time will get reduced by a half, it means if with how mental shield shoul work on offcial, we will have only 15s of silence, 5s of fear, 15s of root. 

i really hope that san0 and his staff could afford more time to rework mental shield

There is no modification on mental shield on our server. Currently it works 100% as it works on official. The official servers had a hot-fix on it and it was applied here. Mental shield has nothing to do with debuff duration but the landing chance of the skill. If you read the thread instead of spamming crap you have no clue about you would have read my post describing how mental works. E.g Necro fear has 70% base land rate on a target without mental shield. On a target with mental shield it  has 35% chance to land. Silence has 90% base land rate and with mental it goes to 45%. Yes 1 min silence is op and in 2.0 NCSOFT changed it to 24sec, which is what will happen here as well.

Maybe learn the game mechanics before you blame the administration just because its easy to do, fucking clueless.

[Kure 444]

Kingbotaki: go hide in same cave and stop cry pplease.



//side note:

2 hours ago, BlackJack said:

A lower level party can defeat a highier level one or much better equipped party with skill and proper CC.

I dont agree with this, CC is completely useless when you face higher level party. You cant win higher pt only if they are dumb and dont know how to play. Classic is ONLY about levels, nothing more. 

[qloc01 207]

1 hour ago, BlackJack said:

There is no modification on mental shield on our server. Currently it works 100% as it works on official. The official servers had a hot-fix on it and it was applied here. Mental shield has nothing to do with debuff duration but the landing chance of the skill. If you read the thread instead of spamming crap you have no clue about you would have read my post describing how mental works. E.g Necro fear has 70% base land rate on a target without mental shield. On a target with mental shield it  has 35% chance to land. Silence has 90% base land rate and with mental it goes to 45%. Yes 1 min silence is op and in 2.0 NCSOFT changed it to 24sec, which is what will happen here as well.

Maybe learn the game mechanics before you blame the administration just because its easy to do, fucking clueless.

yea, do the same and you will realize how embarassed you were, clown =))

[BlackJack 574]

3 hours ago, Kure said:

Kingbotaki: go hide in same cave and stop cry pplease.



//side note:

I dont agree with this, CC is completely useless when you face higher level party. You cant win higher pt only if they are dumb and dont know how to play. Classic is ONLY about levels, nothing more. 

Define highier level? 5-6+++ yes. But 72's land debuffs very easy on me as 76. 3-4 level difference is much lesser impact in debuff land rate compared to older chronicles.

[BlackJack 574]

2 hours ago, qloc01 said:

yea, do the same and you will realize how embarassed you were, clown =))

i gave you examples, you give me words. Everyone knows who is the clown

[Kure 444]

2 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

Define highier level? 5-6+++ yes. But 72's land debuffs very easy on me as 76. 3-4 level difference is much lesser impact in debuff land rate compared to older chronicles.

3-4 lvl diference doesnt mean anything... important is lvl of skill which is usually even lower. for example i will never land my quick spear on you until i reach 74...and its similar with lot of other debuffs. Yes, we are 4lvl from each other now, but "level diference" is bigger... hope you understand what im trying to say   

[BlackJack 574]

23 minutes ago, Kure said:

3-4 lvl diference doesnt mean anything... important is lvl of skill which is usually even lower. for example i will never land my quick spear on you until i reach 74...and its similar with lot of other debuffs. Yes, we are 4lvl from each other now, but "level diference" is bigger... hope you understand what im trying to say   

Yes but it depends on the debuff. For example i can tell you awakendemon silenced me many times with level 72 silence when im 76 and i even have some epics. The biggest difference especially for mages/archers is that you get a lot of extra hp from 68 to 75, especially with vitality on. When i returned playing pistolas was 75 and i was 69. I couldnt fear or silence him until i got level 72 skills. Most of players for example in perkunas are 74. So you should be able to debuff them with level 70 skills and most players are around that level already even if they joined recently.

[kktnxbye 215]

Exaggerated, but some points are valid. About some debuff landing rates and FC. 2 FC for tank - no (it's for bards) but 3 - yes. It would not be any problem but we have +2k CP from castles and that changes all.

Sneaky elf, I'm tired to repeat - we should not appeal to offi cause it has crappy balance and a lot of shit. Next time u have a think "It is(has to be) like on offi" - please go hit your head into the wall. Its evidently for any sane person

[MoDoy 1772]

10 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

Exaggerated, but some points are valid. About some debuff landing rates and FC. 2 FC for tank - no (it's for bards) but 3 - yes. It would not be any problem but we have +2k CP from castles and that changes all.

Sneaky elf, I'm tired to repeat - we should not appeal to offi cause it has crappy balance and a lot of shit. Next time u have a think "It is(has to be) like on offi" - please go hit your head into the wall. Its evidently for any sane person

u should not touch skill balance, because i can guarantee u will mess up balance even more, thats why i am saying  >>>it is (has to be) like on offi<<<

[kktnxbye 215]

23 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

u should not touch skill balance, because i can guarantee u will mess up balance even more, thats why i am saying  >>>it is (has to be) like on offi<<<

There is no balance now. And you cant garantee anything. All fcking 15 years NCSoft making crappy balance. Skills, proffs etc. You are like a cowardly person who instist to keep shitty goverment with the argument "the next one will be only worse!!!".

Here we finally can help admins to make a real balance. Not the crappy offi with cp pots,self d\s, 1-shot FC etc.

[MoDoy 1772]

48 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

There is no balance now. And you cant garantee anything. All fcking 15 years NCSoft making crappy balance. Skills, proffs etc. You are like a cowardly person who instist to keep shitty goverment with the argument "the next one will be only worse!!!".

Here we finally can help admins to make a real balance. Not the crappy offi with cp pots,self d\s, 1-shot FC etc.

cp potions, qhp, d/s scrolls, teleport scrolls or any other crap are not skills problem, but some pay2win features, which are in korea in ncsoft shop to buy for money, those things wouldnt change slightest if u changed any of the skills, so i am not talking to not change them

1-shot FC is situational as ****, if u ever played PR, u would know, also if all the mages wouldnt run with 2h staff but went for 1h wep+shield, things would be different, but its their decision to go for burst setup with OE 2h staff, also having FC is must for archer parties, its only way to get some burst dmg in it, u could see how trashy archer parties were before FC was fixed, everybody rerolled away from them

what i am talking about is all 3 type of groups have a chance winning other type, depending on situation u are in

i am telling u, lets say u change skills for 1 class to balance it (lets say necro or DA or even this PR), dont u think other classes would take their spot on being OP beyond imaginable?

[kktnxbye 215]

1 hour ago, MoDoy said:

cp potions, qhp, d/s scrolls, teleport scrolls or any other crap are not skills problem, but some pay2win features, which are in korea in ncsoft shop to buy for money, those things wouldnt change slightest if u changed any of the skills, so i am not talking to not change them

1-shot FC is situational as ****, if u ever played PR, u would know, also if all the mages wouldnt run with 2h staff but went for 1h wep+shield, things would be different, but its their decision to go for burst setup with OE 2h staff, also having FC is must for archer parties, its only way to get some burst dmg in it, u could see how trashy archer parties were before FC was fixed, everybody rerolled away from them

what i am talking about is all 3 type of groups have a chance winning other type, depending on situation u are in

i am telling u, lets say u change skills for 1 class to balance it (lets say necro or DA or even this PR), dont u think other classes would take their spot on being OP beyond imaginable?

1) Who the fck cares if it skill problem or not if it changes the balance? QHP spam or FC is same disbalanced shit.

2)  "went for 1h wep+shield, things would be different" obviously you have no idea what are u talking about. Shield+one handed and max lvl ee buffs will not save u from FC. Trashy archer parties? Tell me how ppl always played archers before classic?Without disbalanced stun land rate (9sec stuns) and FC? Even in C4 with x4 m.crit dmg, hero scepters and valakas necls archer parties were> mage parties. 

In the past every archer party used bd+sws+cat and assist to have decent dps , now u dont need anything - solo PR just spaming 1 button to robes and its enough. 3-4 days ago 74\75 SR hit me 5k - is it low dmg? PR will hit even more with max buffs. And thats was in addition to 9sec stunlock.

Stop telling bullshit, you fully realize that current FC skill is created without thinking about castle CP bonus. You perfectly realize that 900range 9sec stuns with current landing rates are OP. Same necros with all controlling skills, dark resists, cdl and TP.

As you said - all classes should have a chance to win or be usefull. Now it doesnt so why to keep the disbalance? Ppl(administration as well) are not idiots to broke the skills\classes completely, you are trying to exaggerate the skills change.

[Kure 444]

55 minutes ago, kktnxbye said:

1) Who the fck cares if it skill problem or not if it changes the balance? QHP spam or FC is same disbalanced shit.

2)  "went for 1h wep+shield, things would be different" obviously you have no idea what are u talking about. Shield+one handed and max lvl ee buffs will not save u from FC. Trashy archer parties? Tell me how ppl always played archers before classic?Without disbalanced stun land rate (9sec stuns) and FC? Even in C4 with x4 m.crit dmg, hero scepters and valakas necls archer parties were> mage parties. 

In the past every archer party used bd+sws+cat and assist to have decent dps , now u dont need anything - solo PR just spaming 1 button to robes and its enough. 3-4 days ago 74\75 SR hit me 5k - is it low dmg? PR will hit even more with max buffs. And thats was in addition to 9sec stunlock.

Stop telling bullshit, you fully realize that current FC skill is created without thinking about castle CP bonus. You perfectly realize that 900range 9sec stuns with current landing rates are OP. Same necros with all controlling skills, dark resists, cdl and TP.

As you said - all classes should have a chance to win or be usefull. Now it doesnt so why to keep the disbalance? Ppl(administration as well) are not idiots to broke the skills\classes completely, you are trying to exaggerate the skills change.

mages dps >>>>>> archers dps (even with FC).... cut that crap already.

[EMpoweR 45]

^vortex combo!

[JerrySM 329]

6 hours ago, BlackJack said:

Yes but it depends on the debuff. For example i can tell you awakendemon silenced me many times with level 72 silence when im 76 and i even have some epics. The biggest difference especially for mages/archers is that you get a lot of extra hp from 68 to 75, especially with vitality on. When i returned playing pistolas was 75 and i was 69. I couldnt fear or silence him until i got level 72 skills. Most of players for example in perkunas are 74. So you should be able to debuff them with level 70 skills and most players are around that level already even if they joined recently.

Why i cant silence or fear u?? Something bug

 

in short, Necro and PR are OP

[qloc01 207]

11 hours ago, MoDoy said:

mental shield shouldnt reduce debuff duration like that? what real experience shows that?

mental shield from our server doesnt reduce duration anymore, you dont know that?