Banned for being in party with a cheater.

[AngelForEver 6]

     My best friend was just notified that his account is banned after being in a party with ANOTHER player cheating. He said that he was told by the admin that someone in his party was using Adrenaline but NOT him. Why would he be punished by this ? He was deleveld 5 levels and had all of his (200k) adena taken away. My friend told me he is going to quit the game now and this has ruined the entire experience for me.

      If this is the case, I am also scared to put even any more time into the game or play with other players If I am going to get banned for potentially playing with other cheaters. How can I control who is cheating and How can I tell if someone is cheating ? I think this rule is absolutely insane and quite frankly I do not blame my friend for quitting. This is a very very very poor way to treat players who are INNOCENT. I don't even know If I want to play anymore on this server now. 

I know this is in the rule book, but this needs to be seriously reevaluated by the administration in this game. I feel this is completely unacceptable. 

Might as well just start picking random players, rolling the dice, and banning them for losing the dice roll. 

[Koll 1233]

Hello. In case of party - everyone benefiting from having bot in it. They can even be afk while bot exping them. Because party benefiting EXP/SP/Adena/Resources from bot - we can't ignore it. When you are in party - you can try to talk with everyone in it, you can see that person doesn't have any random moves, bots/automacroses looks like robots, they don't do anything randomly, they just doing same thing in same order.

[AngelForEver 6]

WHAT IS BEING DONE TO PROTECT HONEST PLAYERS ?!?!?!?!?!?

So what happens in a few months if he parties UNKNOWINGLY with another person using a third party program ? Is he going to be permanently banned because of another person ? It is great that the server is extremely strong with the punishment of bot users, but it is completely unacceptable that honest people are being punished.

With the rules in place now, if he plays with ANY player who is breaking the rules he will be punished. The rules do not make ANY sense at all. I am very disappointed with the treatment of honest players. 

Why would anyone risk playing with people that they do not know now ? I do not want to play with anyone but my friends after this incident. 

We 110% support punishment and bans for botting users. We even reported a botter last week and were rewarded. 

Are there administrative logs saying that he was in a party with a botter, that he was not botting ???

What is the guarantee that the admins will actually protect HONEST PLAYERS???



You have a right for 1 unban. Price for unban - 5 Euro.


Or better - play fair and you won't have the need to get back to this topic anymore. - ??? FALSE ???? - HONEST PLAYERS BEING BANNED FOR NOTHING
((( AND / OR -  Play Honest, but get banned anyways because of other players )))

Edited June 23, 2020 by AngelForEver

[MoDoy 1772]

is this the guy from this party https://l2classic.club/forum/topic/23974-ban-without-reason/ crying his heart out? idk if you were connected with them or not, but its not like it happened 1 time, as they were xping in GC for very long time apparently ;x 

On 6/20/2020 at 1:18 AM, bloodseeker said:

Who already saw us, knows that we EXP a very long time in GC.

 

 

[AngelForEver 6]

No absolutely not.

Completely different incident. 

People who joined up for a Raid Boss party then went to go exp after as a group. 
 

[BoogeyMan 84]

On 6/23/2020 at 10:42 PM, Koll said:

you can see that person doesn't have any random moves, bots/automacroses looks like robots, they don't do anything randomly, they just doing same thing in same order.

have seen many times when ppl leaves to attack rb and goes afk. how to notice 3rd program? especially on rbs, or just make soe if someone dies on afk?

Edited June 26, 2020 by BoogeyMan

[FryderykChopin 853]

On 6/23/2020 at 9:42 PM, Koll said:

Hello. In case of party - everyone benefiting from having bot in it. They can even be afk while bot exping them. Because party benefiting EXP/SP/Adena/Resources from bot - we can't ignore it. When you are in party - you can try to talk with everyone in it, you can see that person doesn't have any random moves, bots/automacroses looks like robots, they don't do anything randomly, they just doing same thing in same order.

Well I've got to take the @AngelForEver's side here - how are normal people supposed to recognize a bot? There're people who just don't talk in party at all - sometimes because they don't know the language, sometimes because they're just not talkative. And if the person in question is a fighter who doesn't use skills at all and is just on /assist + /attack (maybe because he reads a book or w/e) there isn't a whole lot of room for 'random moves' there... 

I'm not saying it's a standard situation, but I can easily see how someone can not recognize a bot... And just like in real life, you can't just jail people because "maybe they stole something" - you usually need some kind of evidence, or it at least must be beyond any reasonable doubt, which I'm afraid might not always be the case here.

[Sensei 460]

This "ban all party" thing has to be re-evaluated. You discourage partying up with randoms, and from a competitive pov this can be good, but ppl play this game for various reasons. Getting randomly banned cuz u joined party matching and u didn't magically "smell" that someone is using 3rd soft, is beyond ridiculous.
And keep in mind that some ppl might try to do that intentionally to harm others.
Most end-game players either farm alone or with their constant. Especially newcomers will be affected by this, do you really wanna drive them away?

Edited June 26, 2020 by Sensei

[Amigon 5]

Well as I see all depends on the situation in group, if there is a bot or two doing the farming and everyone else just sitting/following afk than yes they are all getting advantage over the bots no matter the excuse they may come like:"but he said to me being afk cause his kinda heart was willing to lvl me up".

But if the group is all active and there is a bot among us (I mean among them 🤪) so they are also farming therefore the beneficion they got with the bot is way lower in front of the risk of being banned.

Maybe GM could check for example, group's ip to find more precise the unfair players, for example same ip city of the bot and the buffer who where doing nothing but following/buffing.

Well, just my point of view of this delicate situation, after all, if we have a rule where just ban the bot and not party's members, we may have a bot feast explored by those  players.

[Jorep 0]

I believe that giving a ban to everyone who is on a party with a cheater is nonsense since u cant prove that the player(s) who is taking part know that they are invited or they invited someone who cheats. You ask us to have proves when we report someone for cheat but you ban everyone in a party because u hypotheticaly believe that everyone knows who they are teamed up with. So you are telling us that every time we get in party with someone we have to ask them if they use any kind of program or auto macro and if they say "NO" WE MUST BELIEVE THEM because ofcourse nobody lies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So you force ppl to play solo with their boxes or having them fishing in peace zones. very nice

[AngelForEver 6]

Everyone in my clan has agreed not to party with people we do not know from now on until this situation has been reevaluated. I am sorry if we refuse to party with you but its for our own safety. We must protect ourselves if they are punishing everyone. 

[iAxZp 366]

oh come on cut the crap

[Rizos 1487]

Dont create loopholes for botters to avoid bans on their boxes. I rly rly doubt botters make partys with randoms on party matching or go on rb with randoms and bot. If u are playing with bot in pt, its ur fault.

[AngelForEver 6]

2 hours ago, Rizos said:

Dont create loopholes for botters to avoid bans on their boxes. I rly rly doubt botters make partys with randoms on party matching or go on rb with randoms and bot. If u are playing with bot in pt, its ur fault.

Your doubt is your ignorance of the situation. Thanks for the reply.

This ban did not even happen to me but my best friend / clan member in which I've played online games with for 15+ years.

 I want to see some form of justice or reversal for this insane incident. 

WE WANT PROTECTION FOR HONEST PLAYERS.

I've reported 3 bots in the last 3 weeks. I am required to provide video and detailed evidence against the accused. 

There was however nothing provided to support ANY conclusion of his conduct other then being told he was in party with a person using a third party automation program. 

Like I've said before, Newer players do not recognize botters, or macro auto loopers, or any other third party programs as easily as veteran players. 

This is an entire damned if you do and damned if you don't ordeal. 


 

Edited June 29, 2020 by AngelForEver

[Sensei 460]

3 hours ago, Rizos said:

Dont create loopholes for botters to avoid bans on their boxes. I rly rly doubt botters make partys with randoms on party matching or go on rb with randoms and bot. If u are playing with bot in pt, its ur fault.

ok so lets say your friend plebas..i mean bleras decides to lvl up a new toon, so he joins random RB party like he has done in the past, brings krystynka to buff them and someone uses bot.
What happens then?

[Rizos 1487]

7 minutes ago, Sensei said:

ok so lets say your friend plebas..i mean bleras decides to lvl up a new toon, so he joins random RB party like he has done in the past, brings krystynka to buff them and someone uses bot.
What happens then?

if krystynka in pt then ban. Rules are rules

[Jorep 0]

19 minutes ago, Rizos said:

if krystynka in pt then ban. Rules are rules

i 100% disagree with you and those rules. Rules are meant to bring balance and control situations that might bring chaos. Fault rules should be adjusted to be fair. A rule doesnt always mean it is right just because u call it "rule"

[Yomana 437]

I agree with rizos , for the sole reason that this rule is 90% of times correct. Yes you can be unlucky and get unfair ban , but in my 5 year playing here i rarely remember such cases.

If you change this rule you make a point that people shouldnt get banned if they arent caught personally. Which means they should also change rule where they ban every char botter/cheater logged.

Which means all cp can bot/cheat and when one gets caught they will just have 1 ban instead of whole party.

As Rizos said botters almost never play together with normal players , so dont try to create loopholes to avoid some rare unfortunate situations.

Edited June 29, 2020 by Yomana

[Sensei 460]

46 minutes ago, Yomana said:

Which means all cp can bot/cheat and when one gets caught they will just have 1 ban instead of whole party.

I could see a point to all you said except for this part.
A cp is supposed to share chars and if not, at the very least responsibility. If they play together for a week (and I'm being generous), they probably know already if someone bots/loops and should act on it.
But randoms or simply ppl who play the game for the 1st time in their life? What are u gonna tell them? Sorry, unlucky?

Edited June 29, 2020 by Sensei

[Donkihot 114]

if u are playing in cp and u know one of your dudes using bots, it means u are trash u have no right to play this game and u must be burned like witch back in who the fck knows then

[MoDoy 1772]

idk, like yomama said, its 1 in million you get unfairly banned (but it does happen and you can actually get unbanned for free when that happens and you can prove it)

usually how these stories with bots go
1) I didnt use bot, i swear
2) ok, maybe i used bot, but it was character out of party, rest of pt has nothing to do with it, its just random party
3) ok, maybe its not random party, we played together for long time, but they really didnt know
4) ok, maybe they knew, but still they didnt bot and all rest were active anyway, its unfair to ban whole pt for 1 bot, profit is so little
5) ok, maybe half of party was botting, but the other half was not, so please, unban the other half of party at least

[SemenArsonist 568]

note to self for future use: never get in any party with chinese/korean people

[FryderykChopin 853]

On 6/29/2020 at 8:03 PM, Rizos said:

Dont create loopholes for botters to avoid bans on their boxes. I rly rly doubt botters make partys with randoms on party matching or go on rb with randoms and bot. If u are playing with bot in pt, its ur fault.

Dunno, I could see why boters would prefer to be in pt instead of solo. Aside from the fact that farming in pt is generally much more effective, you could first "earn their trust" by playing normally and then switch over to botting. Once the people see that you really just assist and attack all the time anyway they won't notice you, you'll be much less suspicious to people outside of party and you can enjoy the perks of more efficient farming.

I'm not saying it happens often, I mean if it does then case and point but if it's really that rare then it shouldn't be a problem to go case by case and find out of the botters really had anything to do with the rest of the PT members to avoid these loopholes for bot boxers

Edited June 30, 2020 by FryderykChopin

[MoDoy 1772]

1 hour ago, FryderykChopin said:

Dunno, I could see why boters would prefer to be in pt instead of solo. Aside from the fact that farming in pt is generally much more effective, you could first "earn their trust" by playing normally and then switch over to botting. Once the people see that you really just assist and attack all the time anyway they won't notice you, you'll be much less suspicious to people outside of party and you can enjoy the perks of more efficient farming.

I'm not saying it happens often, I mean if it does then case and point but if it's really that rare then it shouldn't be a problem to go case by case and find out of the botters really had anything to do with the rest of the PT members to avoid these loopholes for bot boxers

i wish it worked like that ... on 2.0 the freaking poopers from my cp knew instantly when i started looping during pve and got blamed for it instantly  

[FryderykChopin 853]

Y but from my personal experience, I've partied with randoms a bit around 2 years ago and I gotta say, there're just some people whose playstyle is virtually being a bot, ie their only interaction with you is basically "ty for party" when they join and "I'm going off" when they leave. I mean, there're folks who are extremelly talkative and are looking for every occasion to yak about everything and when there're no topics left to talk about they at least commend you on getting 5 crits on a mob in a row, and it's apparent that botting wouldn't work with these folks, but I really don't feel like everyone checks out rest of the randoms party members for incorrect movements when farming...

Anyway I agree that some steps should be taken (taking away some drop and exp, depending on the case - I mean if there were 8 real people and 1 bot in party then even taking all their stuff is just harsh) to encourage people to try to actively recognize bots in their parties, BUT banning immediately entire party is just unfair.