[WEIGHT IN] Class change

[GniTs 26]

This is what I consider the best change @San0 and @Koll

I'll explain you why.

Paladin and TK are considered support classes on Classic, at lvl 80 they are very strong and unbalance the game.
So there is no reason to making it easy to everyone to have this toons 79.

We have a lot of DA's and ES so makes sense to allow them to move to any other class of 2nd/3rd group.
Its not really hard to lvl any of this 2nd group.

3rd group are classes that are really easy to lvl, then I would keep it this way.
I dont see any reason to have sorc on group 2 instead of 3.

Allowing ppl to get paladins and TK's to 79 that easy will unbalance the game and it's going to be pointless really fast.

Another thing you should work on based on my experience are those SV raids, this killed all classic oficial servers besides the russians.
I would make it pvp zone for 1h when it spawns or make ppl flag when hit boss, then there'll be competition for it.

First group classes:

Overlord
Prophet
Warcryer
Bishop
Elven Elder
Shillien Elder
Swordsinger
Bladedancer
Paladin
Temple Knight

Second group classes:

Dark Avenger (only to change from it)
Elemental Summoner (only to change from it)Warsmith (only to change from it)
Bounty Hunter (only to change from it)
Shillien Knight
Hawkeye
Treasure Hunter
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Gladiator
Warlord
Spellsinger

Third group classes:

Sorcerer
Destroyer
Tyrant
Warlock
Phantom Summoner
Phantom Ranger
Spellhowler
Necromancer

 

Level:

AFTER THIRD CLASS

- If your character is level 79 and higher - it's level will be dropped to level 78 and 100%

- If your character is under level 79, experience won't be changed

- New class will come with 3rd Class quest complete.

Example 1 - You are a Spectral Dancer 79 and you want to change to Soultaker. After Class change you will get Soultaker level 78 100%

Example 2 - You are a Spectral Dancer 77 15%, and you want to change to Soultaker. After Class change you will get Soultaker level 77 15%

Skills:

- Books for 3rd class skills are not being restored

- Divine inspirations are restored

Penalties:

If char was on oly, it can't change class during that cycle

[San0 2423]

3 minutes ago, GniTs said:

This is what I consider the best change @San0 and @Koll

I'll explain you why.

Paladin and TK are considered support classes on Classic, at lvl 80 they are very strong and unbalance the game.
So there is no reason to making it easy to everyone to have this toons 79.

We have a lot of DA's and ES so makes sense to allow them to move to any other class of 2nd/3rd group.
Its not really hard to lvl any of this 2nd group.

3rd group are classes that are really easy to lvl, then I would keep it this way.
I dont see any reason to have sorc on group 2 instead of 3.

Allowing ppl to get paladins and TK's to 79 that easy will unbalance the game and it's going to be pointless really fast.

Another thing you should work on based on my experience are those SV raids, this killed all classic oficial servers besides the russians.
I would make it pvp zone for 1h when it spawns or make ppl flag when hit boss, then there'll be competition for it.

First group classes:

Overlord
Prophet
Warcryer
Bishop
Elven Elder
Shillien Elder
Swordsinger
Bladedancer
Paladin
Temple Knight

Second group classes:

Dark Avenger (only to change from it)
Elemental Summoner (only to change from it)Warsmith (only to change from it)
Bounty Hunter (only to change from it)
Shillien Knight
Hawkeye
Treasure Hunter
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Gladiator
Warlord
Spellsinger

Third group classes:

Sorcerer
Destroyer
Tyrant
Warlock
Phantom Summoner
Phantom Ranger
Spellhowler
Necromancer

 

Level:

AFTER THIRD CLASS

- If your character is level 79 and higher - it's level will be dropped to level 78 and 100%

- If your character is under level 79, experience won't be changed

- New class will come with 3rd Class quest complete.

Example 1 - You are a Spectral Dancer 79 and you want to change to Soultaker. After Class change you will get Soultaker level 78 100%

Example 2 - You are a Spectral Dancer 77 15%, and you want to change to Soultaker. After Class change you will get Soultaker level 77 15%

Skills:

- Books for 3rd class skills are not being restored

- Divine inspirations are restored

Penalties:

If char was on oly, it can't change class during that cycle

why sorc and sps in diferent groups? they are kinda the same except sorc has body to mind untill lvl 40.

[GniTs 26]

3 minutes ago, San0 said:

why sorc and sps in diferent groups? they are kinda the same except sorc has body to mind untill lvl 40.

this b2m helps a lot the sorc to exp in aoe groups what makes the exp a lot faster for him then for a sps or even a sph, cuz sorc has more aoe skills then any other elemental mage
Sps dont have any mp sustain and would need a lot more recharges then a sorc to lvl in any situation.

[YipMan 319]

8 minutes ago, GniTs said:

this b2m helps a lot the sorc to exp in aoe groups what makes the exp a lot faster for him then for a sps or even a sph, cuz sorc has more aoe skills then any other elemental mage
Sps dont have any mp sustain and would need a lot more recharges then a sorc to lvl in any situation.

Thats a complette bulls1t...... Sleep with this

 

[pako 33]

22 minutes ago, GniTs said:

First group classes:

Overlord
Prophet
Warcryer
Bishop
Elven Elder
Shillien Elder
Swordsinger
Bladedancer
Paladin
Temple Knight

Second group classes:

Dark Avenger (only to change from it)
Elemental Summoner (only to change from it)Warsmith (only to change from it)
Bounty Hunter (only to change from it)
Shillien Knight
Hawkeye
Treasure Hunter
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Gladiator
Warlord
Spellsinger

Third group classes:

Sorcerer
Destroyer
Tyrant
Warlock
Phantom Summoner
Phantom Ranger
Spellhowler
Necromancer

1. Why is Spellsinger second group and Sorc in 3rd group? Sorc is slightly better in aoe exp and SPS is better in PVP, no reason to mix this sh1t up like that, it is simply UNFAIR
2. So DA and ES who farmed oly for couple of years can now change to 17 classes, and Warlock, Phantom Summoner who also farmed oly can change to only 6 classes - again UNFAIR (thats why 2 group system is better - simply fair for everyone)
3. Paladin and TK are support classes, I can agree with that. But they are MUCH MUCH easier to exp than bishop or EE or overlord imo. If Pala and TK would be so good there would probably be more of those classes already. Also I don't understand HOW that would cause imbalance. Everyone will have access to this class, so every clan or CP will be able to use it if they choose to. Right now they are the least used classes.

[GniTs 26]

5 minutes ago, pako said:

1. Why is Spellsinger second group and Sorc in 3rd group? Sorc is slightly better in aoe exp and SPS is better in PVP, no reason to mix this sh1t up like that, it is simply UNFAIR
2. So DA and ES who farmed oly for couple of years can now change to 17 classes, and Warlock, Phantom Summoner who also farmed oly can change to only 6 classes - again UNFAIR (thats why 2 group system is better - simply fair for everyone)
3. Paladin and TK are support classes, I can agree with that. But they are MUCH MUCH easier to exp than bishop or EE or overlord imo. If Pala and TK would be so good there would probably be more of those classes already. Also I don't understand HOW that would cause imbalance. Everyone will have access to this class, so every clan or CP will be able to use it if they choose to. Right now they are the least used classes.

1- Sorc is slightly better in aoe exp: This list is exactly to prevent it.
Char is better in aoe exp, so ppl can make it only to change to another class.

2- Warlock/PS are not really OP in mass pvps as DA/ES are and will be after this update. If oly was the case we would have add SK too in the list.

3- THEY ARE REALLY OP and a lot of ppl are already doing this classes.
If we have a "server BI" I would like to ask admins to show how many Paladins we had in november 2018 and compare to now november 2019.

A skill like this shouldnt be that easy to get:

After hitting 79 u'll need a month or less to hit 80 if you are smart and have time.

I think that this 78 100% is also not good.
I would make it 77 100% @San0 @Koll, GC is really easy to farm.

[pako 33]

1. I still think it is ridiculous to put sps in 2nd group and sorc in 3rd group. You have to understand that AOE exp is very rare on low lvls. Try to make party for AOE Alligator island on 40 lvl as sorc and find tank + recharger. Or AOE EV. No one will join your room I have already tried it. I would exp for example Abyss Walker much quicker then Sorc.
2. I didn't understand your point. Why DA and ES can change to 17 classes and Phantom Summoner to 6?
3. I am not gonna argue about that. Imo they don't belong in 1st group, they are too few of those classes. But if admins choose to put them in 1st group I will understand it I guess.

Edited November 8, 2019 by pako

[GniTs 26]

4 minutes ago, pako said:

1. I still think it is ridiculous to put sps in 2nd group and sorc in 3rd group. You have to understand that AOE exp is very rare on low lvls. Try to make party for AOE Alligator island on 40 lvl as sorc and find tank + recharger. Or AOE EV. No one will join your room I have already tried it. I would exp for example Abyss Walker much quicker then Sorc.
2. I didn't understand your point. Why DA and ES can change to 16 classes and Phantom Summoner to 6?
3. I am not gonna argue about that. Imo they don't belong in 1st group, they are too few of those classes. But if admins choose to put them in 1st group I will understand it I guess.

So you would put in risk the game balance just cuz maybe someone will ALONE start a sorc or a sps?
This class change service is something to help experienced players that have no party or are in classes that they dont wanna play anymore to change their game and maybe make new partys and join their friends without having to exp from zero.

So I still dont get ur point about sorc/sps in different groups as you already said that sorc is better on exp then sps.

PS is a lot faster to exp then DA, and yes I agree that ES should go to 3rd group instead of 2nd, you are right in this point.
I even gonna repost my "ideal list" with this updates.

[GniTs 26]

This is what I consider the best change @San0 and @Koll *UPDATED*

I'll explain you why.

Paladin and TK are considered support classes on Classic, at lvl 80 they are very strong and unbalance the game.
So there is no reason to making it easy to everyone to have this toons 79.

We have a lot of DA's and ES so makes sense to allow them to move to any other class of 2nd/3rd group.
Its not really hard to lvl any of this 2nd group.

3rd group are classes that are really easy to lvl, then I would keep it this way.
I dont see any reason to have sorc on group 2 instead of 3.

Allowing ppl to get paladins and TK's to 79 that easy will unbalance the game and it's going to be pointless really fast.

I moved ES to 3rd group since it's as easy to lvl as the others summoners and maybe even more.

I also changed the lvl to 77 100%, since it's really easier to lvl in this update and what makes people still playing is the pursue of lvls and itens, once you make it easy to get then there will be no more active partys daily.

Another thing you should work on based on my experience are those SV raids, this killed all classic oficial servers besides the russians.
I would make it pvp zone for 1h when it spawns or make ppl flag when hit boss, then there'll be competition for it.

First group classes:

Overlord
Prophet
Warcryer
Bishop
Elven Elder
Shillien Elder
Swordsinger
Bladedancer
Paladin
Temple Knight

Second group classes:

Dark Avenger (only to change from it)
Bounty Hunter (only to change from it)
Warsmith (only to change from it)
Shillien Knight
Hawkeye
Treasure Hunter
Plainswalker
Silver Ranger
Abyss Walker
Gladiator
Warlord
Spellsinger

Third group classes:

Elemental Summoner (only to change from it)
Sorcerer
Destroyer
Tyrant
Warlock
Phantom Summoner
Phantom Ranger
Spellhowler
Necromancer

 

Level:

AFTER THIRD CLASS

- If your character is level 79 and higher - it's level will be dropped to level 78 and 100%

- If your character is under level 79, experience won't be changed

- New class will come with 3rd Class quest complete.

Example 1 - You are a Spectral Dancer 78 and you want to change to Soultaker. After Class change you will get Soultaker level 77 100%

Example 2 - You are a Spectral Dancer 77 15%, and you want to change to Soultaker. After Class change you will get Soultaker level 77 15%

Skills:

- Books for 3rd class skills are not being restored

- Divine inspirations are restored

Penalties:

If char was on oly, it can't change class during that cycle

Edited November 8, 2019 by GniTs

[San0 2423]

you guys missing the point of having the DA and pony on group 2, the idea is exactly giving more option for people to get out of this classes that are borken in some scenes like for example olympiad, leading to possibility of having less of this classes in the game which are now overcrowded. 

[GniTs 26]

3 minutes ago, San0 said:

you guys missing the point of having the DA and pony on group 2, the idea is exactly giving more option for people to get out of this classes that are borken in some scenes like for example olympiad, leading to possibility of having less of this classes in the game which are now overcrowded. 

I understand but by doing this we are also giving the opportunity to ppl to lvl a lot of ponys to change to other classes.
Im more worried with ppl doing this power lvls to change class then with ppl having it on olympiads.
The ones who are using it on oly will probably not change to another class.

[San0 2423]

and if it leads to more people playing actively in the late game where is the harm on it?

 

one might argue that is unfair for who ever leveled their slow classes old school style but... in the end is it bad for the late game it self?

[GniTs 26]

2 minutes ago, San0 said:

and if it leads to more people playing actively in the late game where is the harm on it?

 

one might argue that is unfair for who ever leveled their slow classes old school style but... in the end is it bad for the late game it self?

then u actually have a good point.
I agree with that, but I'm worrried about ppl getting 79 really easy.

[San0 2423]

í would go even further and argue that all in one group would be the healthier for the server to be really honest. just dont suggest it cuz dont want people to go bananas

 

[San0 2423]

1 minute ago, GniTs said:

then u actually have a good point.
I agree with that, but I'm worrried about ppl getting 79 really easy.

with all the boosts, all the newbie helps, all the raid bosses, all the events and all the rest, people already get to 79 really easy anyway as far as i see from the users comments.

[GniTs 26]

3 minutes ago, San0 said:

with all the boosts, all the newbie helps, all the raid bosses, all the events and all the rest, people already get to 79 really easy anyway as far as i see from the users comments.

what makes L2 good is that it's hard to grind and very competitive.
This update is very easy now, so why make it even easier?

This class changes the way it's suggested is already a good boost and helps a lot ppl to get back to the game.

[pako 33]

14 hours ago, San0 said:

my first idea was to have only 2 groups like suport and then rest with the "only to change from" limitations, i just thought everyone would go bananas over it

2 minutes ago, San0 said:

í would go even further and argue that all in one group would be the healthier for the server to be really honest. just dont suggest it cuz dont want people to go bananas

 San0 is testing us 

While I agree that 1 group would make the server healthier, people might go mad like you say. 2 groups seem like a good middle ground, fair for everyone. Doesn't affect late game pvp too much (imo) because in the end who cares if u have 1 more SPS or 1 more Sorc? and who cares if u spent 300 hours or 320 hours to get there? Fun late game content is what matters 

[San0 2423]

those are 2 diferent point in time xD, the 2 groups was indeed my first idea. after this talks i realized all in one group would make prolly late game faster to reach leading to more options and more entretainemtn for late game players and clans, and the banas part i always think someone will go bananas over everything we do, prolly cuz always someone will go bananas over everything we do.xD

 

where i stand now,

i agree 1 group only might be healthier for the server late game but will make many people mad.

2 groups seams to be the best way from what i see from most of peoples options.

adding TK and paladin to first group might be at same time bad and good idea, good cuz they have strong skill on lvl 80 at same time bad cuz they are prolly the least played classes and would be interesting to balance this numbers allowing more people to change into this classes.

 

 

[Cyane 230]

My summary: 1st priority is to prevent the fastest farming classes to class change to the lowest farming classes that have the highest pvp endgame potential = supports, inclusing sws. So its fine to have more than 1 group for now.

Second priority: oly fatming: For da and es, they can have that penalty that can only change from it, not change to it, inside second group. I would argue to include necro.

Third priority: pve disbalances within 2nd group: If you care enough, you end up with 3 groups as in the beginning of post. If not, 2 groups. Either way is fine for me.

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Cyane

[MoDoy 1772]

2 hours ago, GniTs said:

PS is a lot faster to exp then DA, and yes I agree that ES should go to 3rd group instead of 2nd, you are right in this point.

yeah, no.

2 hours ago, GniTs said:

3rd group are classes that are really easy to lvl, then I would keep it this way.
I dont see any reason to have sorc on group 2 instead of 3.

yes, sorcerer and sps are "fast" lvling classes coz they can do AoE, the reason why they were moved to 2nd tier from 3rd was to somehow let people try those classes with class change, because they are not even close to be popular, right now ppl are afraid to class change to sorc for example because if it is really bad, they end up rerolling their better tier class into last tier where are not so many options, they wont lose this if it stays in 2nd tier

3 hours ago, GniTs said:

Allowing ppl to get paladins and TK's to 79 that easy will unbalance the game and it's going to be pointless really fast.

i dont think it will unbalance game that much, top parties can and will level those in no time at all even without this class change system, so it pretty much allows weaker parties to catch up to those big boiz

3 hours ago, GniTs said:

Another thing you should work on based on my experience are those SV raids, this killed all classic oficial servers besides the russians.
I would make it pvp zone for 1h when it spawns or make ppl flag when hit boss, then there'll be competition for it.

wait, what? who exactly will compete for them if you make it pvp zone? i am really curious, coz i am pretty certain if its made pvp zone, it will be locked by deviates until any real side arises, and i can tell you that before that happens, they will be all boosted to 79/80 lvls that they wouldnt care about those bosses
last time i went there solo on dagger with randoms, whole big CC got rekt by like 4 pk people and they didnt come back, the moment you make it pvp zone they wont even show up to it, not to talk about "putting some competition for it", thats not going to happen

[TaBIe 40]

23 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

yeah, no.

yes, sorcerer and sps are "fast" lvling classes coz they can do AoE, the reason why they were moved to 2nd tier from 3rd was to somehow let people try those classes with class change, because they are not even close to be popular, right now ppl are afraid to class change to sorc for example because if it is really bad, they end up rerolling their better tier class into last tier where are not so many options, they wont lose this if it stays in 2nd tier

i dont think it will unbalance game that much, top parties can and will level those in no time at all even without this class change system, so it pretty much allows weaker parties to catch up to those big boiz

wait, what? who exactly will compete for them if you make it pvp zone? i am really curious, coz i am pretty certain if its made pvp zone, it will be locked by deviates until any real side arises, and i can tell you that before that happens, they will be all boosted to 79/80 lvls that they wouldnt care about those bosses
last time i went there solo on dagger with randoms, whole big CC got rekt by like 4 pk people and they didnt come back, the moment you make it pvp zone they wont even show up to it, not to talk about "putting some competition for it", thats not going to happen

People wouldnt come aswell if there wouldnt be a bunch of bresses from last events.Now not many people care about being pked,cause you just simply bress yourself ?‍♂️

[Donkihot 114]

I actually don't understand why people are so mad or angry I would say.

With this new patch, it doesn't care, do u play PP or ES, the time u will get to lvl 76 is +-4 days(the difference from ES or PP 20 days or 24 days as example is not a huge difference), because u farm rb's whole day, everyday, ppl invite 3 pp's in one party, and 7 ee in another one. So why even making 2 groups? We can make restrictions like, nobody can change to dwarfs, nobody can change to Dominator except pp/ee/se/bish/wc. And that's all. 

CP's will have better time,since they wont waste time searching for another BD for 10 weeks, right?  People would not be scared to change to SPS or sorc (least played mage class) and try it out and if they don't like it, they can go back on dagger class for example. But as Sano said, I think some ppl will get mad and few of them will cry so much on forum, that most ppl will follow them since they don't have their own opinion on it. People are sheep, what can u do.. 

But if 1 group is impossible, I vote for 2 groups. I want to see more mages, I want to see more daggers, I want to see more tanks

edit: bUT Tk AnD PAL ArE OP aT lVL 80. Duuuh, How many ppl will get to lvl 80? Deviate tanks, RS maybe? Chinese? Thats all, most ppl wont get to lvl 79 anytime soon  so I don't see any problem at all.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Donkihot

[Werew 74]

There is no need for restrictions on tk pala. Top clans/ cps will make them anyway, and few days more of xp  won't make any difference for them, if you put restrictions only top CP and clans will have active tk pala, if you don't put restrictions then mby others will play them dreaming for the day they'll be 80 and not useless anymore

[Meskita 42]

1 question, how about the dyes? They will be removed the same way with class transfer? They will stay in char or be returned?  @San0

[SemenArsonist 568]

14 minutes ago, Meskita said:

1 question, how about the dyes? They will be removed the same way with class transfer? They will stay in char or be returned?  @San0

dyes are not removed on class transfer, they stay as they are but become unusable if the class you reroll to isn't eligible to use them(they become red aka unusable and you have to remove them)