What would you change?

[Ovid 17]

This is not a suggestion topic. It's just an open discussion about anything you would change in Lineage 2, if it were up to you.

 

Since I love Shilien Elders so much, if it were up to me I would:

- modify Children of Shilen Lv. 1 (at level 20, 1st class change) 1% MP regen, 5 casting speed; 

                                             Lv. 2 (at level 40, 2nd class change) 1 MEN, +1% MP regen, +5 casting speed;

                                             Lv. 3 (at level 76, 3rd class change) +1 MEN, +1 MP regen, +5 casting speed; 

At max level Children of Shilen would give 2 MEN, 3% MP regen, 15 casting speed.

- Recharge skil (same for Elves) - when performing the skill, the caster receives 4MP/s for 5s (it does not stack with each use);

- Vampirism (new passive, SH, SE, PS classes) - at night regenerate 2% HP, using magic damage. During the day regenerate 2% HP by chance, using magic damage.

- I would enable the possibility of magic critical during Recharge (same for Elves) - crit for 0.5, and receive a buff that negates future criticals for 5s. Meaning you can crit on a recharge, but for the next 5s if you crit again you will recharge as normal.

 

To be fair towards Elven Elders, I would give a passive to them as well, Eva's Choir Lv. 1: 1% MP regen, 5 magic attack / Lv. 2: +0.5% MP regen, +7 matk / Lv. 3: 1 MEN, +0.5% MP regen, +9 matk. In total it would be 1 MEN, 2% MP regen, 21matk.

 

Also for OVerlord's Pa'agrio's Heart - if the target's HP is full, regenerate CP instead: 10 CP/s for 15s.

 

I am not trying to overpower the SE class, the numbers are up for debate, but I think these changes make things a little more interesting.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ovid

[Armagheton 13]

If it was for me my priority was to look into all the CCs duration. You shound't be able to Fearlock or Stunlock a champion no matter the circumstance. I would instaltly fix the landrate of any CC to a base of 100% but i would also bring down the duration of them to 1/10 of the actual one. Then from there i would start with a series of regual update ( in a short time window ) to balance out any class.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Armagheton

[Ovid 17]

17 minutes ago, Armagheton said:

If it was for me my priority was to look into all the CCs duration. You shound't be able to Fearlock or Stunlock a champion no matter the circumstance. I would instaltly fix the landrate of any CC to a base of 100% but i would also bring down the duration of them to 1/10 of the actual one. Then from there i would start with a series of regual update ( in a short time window ) to balance out any class.

Along with your idea, I would add somewhere in ALT+C a place to see a percentage of curse resist and curse success rate. 

Or if it's too much work for fixing CC land rates, at least after they wear off, receive a buff of immunity to that CC for 5-10 seconds.

Edited May 30, 2020 by Ovid

[MoDoy 1772]

4 hours ago, Armagheton said:

If it was for me my priority was to look into all the CCs duration. You shound't be able to Fearlock or Stunlock a champion no matter the circumstance. I would instaltly fix the landrate of any CC to a base of 100% but i would also bring down the duration of them to 1/10 of the actual one. Then from there i would start with a series of regual update ( in a short time window ) to balance out any class.

that will never work in L2, because classes have way too few skills for this kind of system where CC duration is from 0.5s to 1.5s

[FryderykChopin 853]

5 hours ago, Armagheton said:

If it was for me my priority was to look into all the CCs duration. You shound't be able to Fearlock or Stunlock a champion no matter the circumstance. I would instaltly fix the landrate of any CC to a base of 100% but i would also bring down the duration of them to 1/10 of the actual one. Then from there i would start with a series of regual update ( in a short time window ) to balance out any class.

Yeah I'd also find the gameplay much more enjoyable if it worked this way. I'd even go as far as making all debuffs fixed 100% landrate (with obviously massively reduced durations), with resists reducing the actual time and/or damage (in case of bleeds/poisons, whose damage would be massively increased in its base) instead of landrate. It would obviously need some work around reuse timers to prevent insta-locks (e.g. stuns, despite having 100% landrate, would need to have much higher reuse timers). Also e.g. necros would need to have much weaker damage nukes than regular nukers... Overall it would need a lot of tuning but I'd much prefer this system over what L2 has.

I'm not saying I hate RNG or anything, I really like the whole enchanting thing for example, but I feel like in PvP it has annoyed me more than not.

[FryderykChopin 853]

1 hour ago, MoDoy said:

that will never work in L2, because classes have way too few skills for this kind of system where CC duration is from 0.5s to 1.5s

Y but like, the durations would need to be reworked just as well as the landrates; as he mentioned it before, that it would require a series of updates, so that if some skill is OP it can be boosted quickly and vice versa if it's complete garbage it can have e.g. duration increased...

[Ovid 17]

I have always felt that DOT in L2 is crap. 

Maybe it was powerful during C1-C3, but as newer armors and jewels were introduced, that 60 damage per second for 15s seems more like a nuisance than a threat.

If DOTs were meant for PvP, maybe they had some use (maybe they still have in Oly), but for PvE they're useless. I would increase the dmg in PvE significantly better.

I like the idead of having reduced timers for CC, with 100% land rates and the possibility of them being influenced by player's defenses, like reduced land rate %, dmg and duration.

 

But how would you guys try to balance the game, by making buff-box and rarely chosen classes being played as live?

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ovid

[MoDoy 1772]

57 minutes ago, Ovid said:

But how would you guys try to balance the game, by making buff-box and rarely chosen classes being played as live?

in past there used to be holy pomander to balance healer classes, but i am not sure it wont have negative effect if it ever was implemented here instead of positive one (would have to be balanced which skills can be learnt, amount of pomanders each healer gets [e.g. BP gets 1, EE gets 2, SE gets 3?, idk])

that way even if you CP decides to have SE active instead of EE, you dont have to sacrafice lets say PR/clarity/resist shock for which ppl have EE in parties, you could have EE but have empower on it so you dont have to bring SE box everywhere with you, etc. etc., there were many interesting setups back in the time (before people learnt the optimal setup with 2 bishops and 1 learns recharge)

https://l2wiki.com/Skill_Transfer

[Ovid 17]

26 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

in past there used to be holy pomander to balance healer classes, but i am not sure it wont have negative effect if it ever was implemented here instead of positive one (would have to be balanced which skills can be learnt, amount of pomanders each healer gets [e.g. BP gets 1, EE gets 2, SE gets 3?, idk])

that way even if you CP decides to have SE active instead of EE, you dont have to sacrafice lets say PR/clarity/resist shock for which ppl have EE in parties, you could have EE but have empower on it so you dont have to bring SE box everywhere with you, etc. etc., there were many interesting setups back in the time (before people learnt the optimal setup with 2 bishops and 1 learns recharge)

https://l2wiki.com/Skill_Transfer

I don't think we need pomanders in classic. I always liked having both SE and EE in a mage party. Even in a fighter party both would be usefull, EE acting like a second healer.

I would make Bishop (and only Bishop) have Major Heal and Major Group Heal, and remove greater heals from him. The elders can have the greater heals.

But I was mostly thinking of classes like PP, WC and some other fighter classes that are not played that much. Especially PP since it has individual buffs and it's a pain to level.

 

Off topic: Cardinal choosing Recharge is the most stupid available option NC Soft could ever think of. If Cardinal takes Recharge, it can never be recharged by elders.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Ovid

[FryderykChopin 853]

If the whole healer thing was being rebalanced, step no.1 anyway should be giving both EE and SE chain heal like back in good old days™

[Ovid 17]

12 hours ago, FryderykChopin said:

If the whole healer thing was being rebalanced, step no.1 anyway should be giving both EE and SE chain heal like back in good old days™

Maybe with a smaller %, just to be fair towards Cardinal.

 

Off topic: SE has mass purify and mass cure poison. Mass purify cures paralyses, bleed and poison. Why the hell would you waste SP to learn mass cure poison?

Edited June 1, 2020 by Ovid

[Ovid 17]

Any other ideas?

I read many discussions regarding Kiss of Eva, Elemental Nukers' damage skills. What would you guys change there?

[FryderykChopin 853]

23 hours ago, Ovid said:

Any other ideas?

I read many discussions regarding Kiss of Eva, Elemental Nukers' damage skills. What would you guys change there?

Kiss of Eva is honestly fine as it is. Yeah nukers are fairly strong right now, but they're not broken - plus, their strength is compensated with how hard they're to farm with on this patch. If in some upcoming patch there's a new location for nukers to AoE easily then I'd bring up this discussion again, but even then there'd much much more factors to account with.

[Cyane 230]

@Rizos you did some list some months ago (i cant find it) about many possible changes. One i remember that i liked was from nostalgia shop, prem acc for 1 day for example and many more

[MoDoy 1772]

1 hour ago, Cyane said:

@Rizos you did some list some months ago (i cant find it) about many possible changes. One i remember that i liked was from nostalgia shop, prem acc for 1 day for example and many more

here you go:

On 4/13/2020 at 2:31 PM, Rizos said:

About server rebalance, i would like to see how such changes would change gameplay on server

=BALANCE CHANGES=

1. fix mages dmg - smth is definitely wrong and i mean wc/ol drain healer moh/necro death spike /mages hurricane, promine, should be lower by 20-30%(10-20% if kys of eva is removed) - check video above, i think fixing these nukes to deal dmg like hydro blast would fix problem.
2. decrease raging force/sonic raging scaling with p atk by +-50% and crit rate factor - right now chars with insane p atk hit for insane dmg with raging, on off ppl hit same with other skils like here but raging hit for half and crits are very rare - if you want to go for it, i can try to get more data to try to find out correct values of scaling for raging force/sonic raging
3. fix puri song - smth broke on last update with resist rate(Edit, i did test todday, doesnt look like bugged but would be nice if u check it by urself: https://youtu.be/TDkLzIxt8Yo
4. Fix destro fear to be mental debuf https://youtu.be/-Stok1vT5zQ
5. Implement blessed soulshot to help warriors/archers be relevant
6. make kys of eva selfbuf https://youtu.be/er_aq4dfd6s
7. make necro nuke weaker compared to elemental mages (90-100 power on death spike ?) and remove cursed bone, just like other summoners were nerfed
8. add 20% stun resist reduction debuf to provoke on wl, increase thunder storm base landrate form 80% to 110% (quick spear has 130% so dont change it)
9. Review throwing daggers/79 dagger skils - looks like old fixes were reverted by mistake(?)
10. Fix or customize protection dance to provide any relevant reflect dmg reduction so squishy classes like elemental mages can aoe, not get 1shot themself from reflect - a little cookie for mages as compensation for nerfs from point 1. Dance of protection looks like not giving sh1t https://youtu.be/Nuz1DgREVV8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJIQwCbeXf4

11. Debatable change - dunno if good, would need tests - make fears/stuns like sleep that you cant  land new debuf when old didnt end or add mental shield weapon for oly

=OTHER CHANGES=
12. implement this cookie https://l2wiki.com/classic/Agathion_Bracelet_Lv._5
13. decrease brez cast speed or implement cooldown
14. implement 80% death penalty scrols for col - so ppl dont need to spam brez on pvp
15. add to events daily coins in reward list so new ppl can catch up with bracelets etc
16. add premium account for 1 day for 10 col
17. Fix yellow fruit that it doesnt take buff slot.
18. add m def buff to beer bufs

 

Implement all changes at same time, not step by step, open test server, make event there that ppl can win hat on normal server if they make good pvp movies testing stuff etc - dont experiment on live server

[Ovid 17]

Regarding the above post, I think that the mage damage and kiss of Eva issues were solved. Right?

[FryderykChopin 853]

6 hours ago, Ovid said:

Regarding the above post, I think that the mage damage and kiss of Eva issues were solved. Right?

It was, there only was a problem with those 80+ skills being wrongly calculate and that's fixed already, mages generally are fine now (fine in a sense that necro is still overpowered compared to vanilla mages, but I guess we got used to that). He's got plenty of other good points there however.

Edited June 5, 2020 by FryderykChopin

[Ovid 17]

11 hours ago, FryderykChopin said:

It was, there only was a problem with those 80+ skills being wrongly calculate and that's fixed already, mages generally are fine now (fine in a sense that necro is still overpowered compared to vanilla mages, but I guess we got used to that). He's got plenty of other good points there however.

If I remember, Necromancer was always a bit of unfair to fight against. Death Spike had the same level as SH one, Transfer Pain max level as the summoners', lots of CC, especially Abyss and Doom.

Maybe with the later additions from H5, dark resistance, high mdef jewelry, had brought SOME balance to the class.

On classic, to balance Necro I would give Transfer Pain up to lvl 2, if 4 is the max level. And maybe make Death Spike at max lvl to have power 120.

I do agree to remove cursed bone as a consumable for Death Spike.

I would also increase the summon beast shots level, because it's annoying to create 30 shots per cast.

[Ovid 17]

Warning, wall of text!

Something came to mind these days, but first I have to make an introduction, for those who might not know the Lore. https://l2wiki.com/Lineage_2_Lore

Einhasad (female, light, creation) and Gran Kain (male, dark, destruction) were the first gods, and they had children.

All of them created the major races in our game, as so:

- Einhasad (pretty much created everything) created the Giants (who are 99% extinct in the game) - the Giants were the supreme race and excelled in almost everything;

- Pa'agrio (god of fire) created the Orcs from the spirit of fire - the Giants used the Orcs in warfare;

- Shilen (then goddess of water) created the Elves from the spirit of water - the Giants used the Elves in diplomacy and magic related affairs;

- Sayha (god of air) created the Arteia from the spirit of air - the Giants tried to cage the Arteia, but they would die, so the Giants let them free to become messengers of the world;

Note: in the original Lore, pre-GoD, this race was really named Arteia, not Ertheia. In Goddess of Destruction the Ertheia is a child of Orc and Elf, all female, which kind of fucks up the lore.

- Maphr (goddess of earth) created the Dwarves from the spirit of the earth - the Giants used the Dwarves in banking and crafting;

- Gran Kain, envious, wanted to create something as well, but he was the aspect of destruction and chaos. He asked for spirits of the elements from his children, but they only had the negative remains to give, so he took them and created the....drum rolls... Humans - the Giants used the Humans as slaves;

Eva didn't create anything living, she didn't have any elements to represent, so she created music and poetry. 

Gran Kain seduced his daughter Shilen and got her pregnant. Shilen's mother, Einhasad stripped her from the responsibility over Water and banished Shilen from Heaven. Gran Kain didn't interfere, and Eva became the new goddess of Water.

- Shilen (now goddess of death) birthed all the horrors that exist in the world and the 6 dragons: Antharas (earth), Valakas (fire), Lindvior (wind), Fafurion (water), Aulakiria (light) and (not sure of the name) Drak-Bael (darkness). She went to the heavens with her children to punish the gods for mistreating her. She lost the battle, retreated and created the Underworld, where she rules. Einhasad cast a sleeping spell on Shilen and sealed the Underworld with 7 sigils.

Fast-forward: the giants died, the races warred with each other, humans rose from slavery and conquered the continent, the elves had a civil war with a tribe of brown-elves.

The brown-elves wanted power to fight the humans, and so learned the forbidden dark magic. The elves cast a curse to banish the brown-elves in a cave, which in time, became the Dark Elves. This curse also kind of created the Sea of Spores.

 

Ok, now that this is out of the way, I can ask my questions and provide the "what would you change":

1. Why the hell did NC Soft give the Dark Elves wind attribute?

2. Why the hell did NC Soft fuck up the Arteia-Ertheia part?

3. Why did NC Soft introduce the Kamael as the next race?

 

1. I would have kept the dark elf and elf races as one race. I would have the dark elves use water attribute as well and change the names of some of their spells.

Hurricane/Tempest is a mixture of wind and water, so either make it do 20% wind dmg and 80% water dmg. or rename it to Maelstrom/Whirlpool (no pun intended) and make it do water dmg.

2. In Lineage 2 today the... Ertheia is a female warrior/mage which has wind and holy attributes. This sucks and deviates from the Lore. Instead of introducing the Kamael back then, I would have added the Arteia, with the actual wind skill-set which dark elves have right now, but not the CCs. I would create new CC to better suite the air element of this race, such as decrease in evasion, speed, attack speed and accuracy.

3. If I remember well, the Kamael were created by the Giants to battle other creations of theirs OR to battle and kill the Gods. I can't find a link with the original lore behind the Kamael.

Anyway, instead of providing only fighter classes, I would keep the Berserker and Arbalester classes as warriors and remake the Soulhound into a mage class (with robes and staves) and maybe rework the Inspector into a buff/semi-warrior-DD class.

 

I really love this game and I don't understand why NC Soft pissed on their creation. I didn't like other MMO games because none were close to L2. It's so odd to hit with your weapon in other games and not get the soulshot/spirithsot animation. Lineage 2 had so much potential, even with Goddess of Destruction, but not in that form. Keep the 4th class, but don't merge the 31 classes into 8. They stopped providing good and well written lore, they didn't invest in balancing some classes, they just made the game free to play (pay to win) and just let loose the bots.  

 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Ovid

[Lunareaia 32]

i would make prophet into a more real "warrior-wizard" type of class,utilizing both melee and magical skills.

[ProGressive 740]

Archers.

[Rizos 1487]

2 hours ago, ProGressive said:

Archers.

problem of archers is auto atacks are sh1t. Auto atacks are sh1t cos of cc + cop + no bless soulshots

[iAxZp 366]

56 minutes ago, Rizos said:

problem of archers is auto atacks are sh1t. Auto atacks are sh1t cos of cc + cop + no bless soulshots

problem of archers is fatal, delete fatal and add them boostes that apply autoattacks. archers are not ment to be casters at my humble opinion.now we dont have archers, we have PR fataling x20 of how much an autoattack dmg is, so even with blessed souldshots the ONLY thing would change is prs hit harder while hawk and sr are UNplayable.

on a second thought DONT "delete it" just nerf it to worth using but not being main dmg

Edited July 30, 2020 by iAxZp

[Donkihot 114]

it is simple.

Nerf CC (duration time, land rate) for all classes.

Buff archers (melee dmg as iAxZp already said, fatal strike is a joke. SR/HE dead.) It is like, why would I drive toyota corolla 2004 if I can drive bugatti veyron for same price?

If we fix atleast that, server will be happy.

talking about other changes, is kinda usless, because they are not TOP 1 priority. Fix that, and lets talk about something else. But we need to focus on that, and let GM"s know that we want those changes. 

 

[MoDoy 1772]

i wonder if people who talk about archers tested them :d try to go make 80 lvl SR with full boost and you will be genuinely surprised, its just ppl are meta poopers and cannot think about anything themselves :p