Cyane

​Sorry, i was wrong. Not all effects. With a bow,: -p.atk does not change with Bear or Ogre totem, but p.def and m.def does with both. Don't know if Critical damage is affected. - Attack speed and accuracy does not change with puma and rabbit totem. But speed does with both, and Evasion increases with Rabbit. -Accuracy does not change with wolf totem, but speed and attack speed does. -Accuracy does not change with Bison totem, but critical and p.atk does. @San0 is this the way it should work?

LOL! Just some testing on test server. This Korean AoE system really sucks

Tyrant totems can only be activated when you are equiped with fists. But after that, you can change to a bow for example, and have the effects of the totem.

+1 it would be fun and usefull for raid bosses

Yes

Then you do admit that blow damage is higher due to those skills, so your comparison was not fair and won't be until Classic 2.0. The only thing that you can keep defending is the lower landrate of blows for th only, because the other two daggers will have focus death. But check Poseidon videos: Treasure hunters are not broken due to their current land rate. It might be lower in Classic, but it is enough.

When someone wants to change the quantities or price of the things that he wants to buy by private store, that things are completly removed after /buy from "Wish list", so it can be a bit annoying to set all prices and quantities again. It doesn't happen with Private Store (Sell). Sorry for my english and thks!

CON does affect stun resistance but STR does not influence critical damage (test server). Anyway we are missing the point of the topic.

​https://4gameforum.com/threads/541633/ Shadow step is learned at level 50. The skills that will be added in 3ª job for Adventurer are -Focus Power: Increases critical damage (for AW/TH only according to Korea) -Focus Death: Increases blow chance and critical damage (for AW/PW only according to Korea) -Focus Chance: Increases critical chance(for PW/TH only according to Korea) For all dagger classes: -Lethal Blow: Attacks a target's vital area. -Critical Wound: Increases critical damage taken by the target by 10%. Increases blows critical chance. -Reset Movement: Resets the cooldown of Hide and Shadow Step. PD: The videos that Rizos showed are from TH and AW with 3 job skills being used(Focus power: +60% critical damage from the back and Focus death: +90% critical damage from the back and increases blow chance by 60%). So Rizos, the damage and blow chance you were comparing with are from characters with 3rd class skills of lvl 78+ (no one in classic reached that level yet) that will be added in classic 2.0. So you have no basis for comparison.

1) "while hes geting nuked or shoted bu archer" Not neccesary. You can cast it while your enemy is targeting someone else for example and then gank. It takes 1.5 seconds to cast it with proper buffs. 2) 500 and 600 range. Casting time: Almost instant. Reload time: 5 and 3 seconds. I think is fine. Was it better on other chronicles? 3) Level 52 with top b weapons and Self buff: backstab vs hurricane have similar damage. With full buff and tyrant with +12 STR against the same target: -Backstab: 1293 -Hurricane: 940 4) It is true that daggers dont' have good debuffs except Estangle for PW's. However, they have to focus on moving, backstabbing and killing instead of being unable to move while debuffing. Again, daggers have to deal with enemies debuffs with trick, switch, UE (40% to avoid stun) and hide. Tanks can focus on debuffing, daggers have to kill. 5) The damage of backstab is superior with full buff and top B: 1853(backstab) vs 1315 of double shot (or 1600 with +12 STR) on level 60 against the same target. On level 52 they are equal because of low level of critical damage passives and vicious stance. Try in higher levels. Again, take into consideration hide to cut distance. Backstab ignores cp and hit faster. 72.50% is high enough imo. If more land rate is needed, +12 Dex increases it to 82.25%. You can take out Str for pvp since it has little effects on the damage of stabs (as it is showed in the experiment). However, Double shot has more chances of critical skill and i do agree with you here: When it crits, archer are better damage dealers than daggers despite of having range advantages. But imho it should be nerfed their skill critical rate, not improve backstab damage "So basically ur saying dagger is not weaker than for example on c5? I think it doesnt do even close dmg to that" But i never said that. My point is that daggers have enough damage to do their job in classic: ganking robe and archer classes. So they are not broken. And the other point was to show that there were statements you declare about dagger's damage when comparing with other classes that were wrong. About balance, you are right on arena scenario, 1 vs 1 face to face. There are classes that have little chances. But I think that in Classic the balance relies more on groups of parties vs parties, where every class work better on doing their roles in their party. For example: If you lack debuff resistance, then a prophet in your party could help you with that weakness. Use the surprise factor to gank enemies. Only daggers have hide, use it to your advantage. Wait for the warriors/tanks to stun your target if neccesary before ganking and so on.

"I've played Dagger from c4 to h5 and i must admit on all these old chronicles dagger was never as weak as on classic" Well, l​et's see... "U dont have any CC(just 20% slow)" Yeah, that's true, but not for Plains walker. Plains walker has 20% slow from bleed, and + 30% slow from Estangle. They stack each other. "Problem is all debufs got boosted a lot and ull be just perma stunned or rooted, U die from mage before u get close even if he is stupid enough and doesnt try to fear or slow u". Debuff landrate is high and it affects to all classes, so its not a exclusive disadvantage for dagger classes. You say also that a dagger dies before he reaches a mage. Thats really far from being true. And even if it was true, dagger classes are not front killers anyway. They are assasins. They are not suppose to sustain damage, much less magic damage since they lack magic resist passives. BUT in Classic you have tools to deal with them anyway: -Switch and trick not only cancels enemies target. It cancels the spells that are being casted by your enemy. -Hide cancels the spells that are being casted to you too. And it cuts the distance between you and your target. I think that people is just used to being killed from higher level and geared players. "Skill dmg is extremely low, like 50% of what it used to be on interlude, while other warrior skil dmg is boosted. U will be probably surprised when u meet an agressive dorf on 4x lvls. He will do more dmg with stun than you with backstab. Blows miss like never before. Even backstab misses from behind. Deadly blow from behind is like 50% and from front like 20%. I would agree to make the blows miss especially from front, but it should be rng class where u either miss or do high dmg. Here on classic u either miss or do same dmg as dorf stun" A deadly blow (-12 str) from the front has higher damage than a dwarf's hammer crush damage with +12 STR. With full buff, deadly blow doubles the damage of hammer crush. BUT it is true that warrior and archer skills have more chances of landing critical skill (x2) than stabs. Anyway, consider that stabs are faster too, half-kills are posible, and Backstab ignores CP. About backstab, deadly blow and mortal blow land rate, check: https://4gameforum.com/threads/566669/ Chances are higher than what you stated. "I dont even compare it to tyrant/glad dmg. Well warlord does more dmg with aoe skills :D" Backstab's damage is superior to any AoE skill of Warlords against one target. With no dyes and Top b weapons, backstab's damage is superior to Double sonic slash (with Sonic focus at maximum), and inferior to Triple sonic Slash (with Sonic focus at maximum). But with full buff (and +12 STR dyes for gladiator), backstab's damage is superior to Triple sonic Slash (with Sonic focus at maximum). 'Where is the point of existing class that does lower dmg than ranged classes(archer/mage), which does have low land rate while archer/dagger has 100%, does have to care not to hit from front, while other classes dont care, isnt tanky, doesnt have crowd controll and needs to get close to deal dmg? In old chronicles it atleast had good physical skills and attack evasion rate + bluff and reliable blow land rate from behind with very high dmg/skill, not like here.." I compared and showed the damage and land rate of stabs before. Damage of double shot is superior without buffs. But with full buff, even with +12 STR for phantom ranger, back stab's damage is superior. It seems that death whisper+dance of fire+ bleesing of queen benefit dagger's damage more than other classes with buffs of p.atk + STR dyes. BUT as a say earlier, critical skills are less often on stabs. Consider that fighter enemies have -40% chances of hiting dagger classes with skills while UE lvl 2 is active. So not always 100%, at least against you. "I wonder if ppl who are claiming dagger is just fine here, tried to play one here and go through low lvls, check it on pvp,pve etc, and played on old chronicles to compare". I did. "All in all if u are masohist and like to play weak class with cut off balls without any cc in debuff meta, if u wanna play tank with low def and w/o ud/stun/para (thats how i see hvy armor daggers on classic) go on and try out one by urself". Actually, they are better against mages now, since shield can block magic skills too. Evasion against auto-hits doesn't help much on the context of classic. "If u wonder, maybe daggers are gonna get stronger, balanced and more fun to play, ull be surprised. Go check korean classic 2.0 oly on youtube and ull see how dagger cant even take half cp from bd, before dieing :D. Such a joke class". In 2.0, probably admins will add Shadow step, which teleports at the enemy's back and cancels target. Poseidon and other videos show that they work fine for what they are suppose to do better: ganking robe classes. Do not expect daggers to win knight classes face to face. All my answers have been tested today on test server with characters lvl 58, all skills learned, top B, with self-buff and full buff. I hope it can be informative.

Thks!

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This post is very old. check @Poseidon you tube channel and you will see treasure hunter works fine. or check test server: both archers and mages die after 2 backstabs.

Leave a pm with your offer

@Elcardia For mele Aoe: Ee + Tk + Warlord + Destroyer. Tk: best tank AoE. Ee: bless shield+adv. block for tk, recharge mp + clarity for warriors that use primarly skills for aoe. Polers: warlord: stun, destro: excruciating strike ---> then kill

Bug report: Spellbook: Clear Mind does not appear on drop list info on Liele elders (Live server).

10 lvls de diferencia, la penalizacion de experiencia es grave para el menor lvl de la party. 15 lvls de diferencia, el menor lvl de la party no recibe experiencia. Es por eso que la mayoria de las partys no permiten una diferencia de lvl mayor a 9 (entre el mayor lvl de la party y el menor). En tu ejemplo, la buffer debe ser lvl 31 como minimo.

Bug Report: Vampiric does not work on 100% of mele attacks. And it doesn't work on PvP (or chances are very low). (Test server).

Source is our Test server: http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/9381-how-to-access-test-server/ Shot00017.bmp Shot00018.bmp

@datplays Treasure Hunter lvl 75 with all Light masteries learned (TEST-SERVER done by me) P.def comparison between B Light and heavy armors of the same type: BW light: 732(699 without set bonus) vs BW heavy: 715 Doom light: 699 vs Doom heavy: 745 Avadon light: 665 vs Avadon heavy: 674 Zubei light: 633 vs Zubei heavy: 709 (674 without set bonus) In all cases (except blue wolf light with the set bonus effect of +5.26% P.Def) p.def of heavy armor sets without Heavy armor Masteries is superior to the p.def of light armor sets with all Light armor passives learned at 75.

In summary: since in classic the damage done by skills has been improved a lot in fighters classes (especially double shot for archers) they prefer to use skills instead of auto-hit. So some stat parameters given by dex (accuracy, critical rate, evasion) and by Light armor masteries (25%/35% less chances of being hit by criticals, evasion, accuracy) are not important factors on pvp anymore. This is because physical skills do not depend on accuracy, evasion, critical rate. So heavy armor sets are selected for pvp because of their higher p.def. P.def does protect them against physycal skills. The same argument with carrying a shield for daggers. It protects them against both physical skills and nukers.

It has been reported already. Lighting Strike lands even when the target resists it. @Aduha showed it in a video: http://l2classic.club/forum/index.php?/topic/10255-not-sure-its-quite-right-chance/

Check this link to know how "Cancel" skill works on Lineage 2 Classic: https://4gameforum.com/threads/507793/ Each buff has a specific and independent chance of being removed according to russian tests.