Suggestion: Destroyer class fix/balance

[FalkaValiarde 25]

Spoiler dont have rush but have over 9000 stuns.

dont tease me. U know for me i would give all skills to dorfs  

I would also give all skills to DA but he is already best char ever in this game.

 

​I think we can talk a little about what more skills dwarfs can have ;>

[FryderykChopin 853]

Can't say I agree with the Rush... It was one of the features in High Five where people thought 'well, this stops being the game that I used to know', now we have it in Classic.

I think it would've been wiser to solve this issue through various speed boosts/slow resistances on existing skills, such as "Trigger: 7% chance to increase Speed drastically when under attack" for Destroyer's Light Armor Mastery, it could be really huge like +90 speed (Zealot gives 30), but Rush... Rush is just Rush, there's no turning back once it's in the game. Also I don't really think Tyrants needed it at all.

[datplays 191]

Spoiler dont have rush but have over 9000 stuns.

dont tease me. U know for me i would give all skills to dorfs  

I would also give all skills to DA but he is already best char ever in this game.

 

​

i think spoil is good enough

He can severa stuns, one with cancel and it has spoil so its useful in pvp and pve. Destro was useles on pve and pvp till now, I think this rush can change a lot, nice

​i though the topic is about how Destro is sad, bcoz he cant reach target, so he need Rush.
If he has Rush, he reach target, he also have stun + tons of dmg and even if he dont stun enemy, he will kill him with his combo after this.
If enemy survives he can stun again. He also have tons of HP.
Spoil has multiple stuns, but he has no tons of dmg and less HP and ofc no closing distance skill.

Second thing Destro is better at PvE. Tons dmg, kill mob fast. Frenzy, Zealot. More STR, more dmg.

[FalkaValiarde 25]

​i though the topic is about how Destro is sad, bcoz he cant reach target, so he need Rush.
If he has Rush, he reach target, he also have stun + tons of dmg and even if he dont stun enemy, he will kill him with his combo after this.
If enemy survives he can stun again. He also have tons of HP.
Spoil has multiple stuns, but he has no tons of dmg and less HP and ofc no closing distance skill.

​Give him a beer! Rush for spoilers!

[Rizos 1487]

i still think ppl are not seeing the big picture and not utilizing destro to its max potential, i dont believe the "let me go low for frenzy so i can one hit ppl" tactic is the one to follow now. i think ppl kinda got too used to the offensive part of the destro and forgot how good of a punching bag he is and how much he can soak up for his party. either way. not sure if buffing frenzy is the way to go in here. tho we decided that on 2,0 not only gran khavatari but also titan will have rush. together with his new set of skills it might very well make it a very relevant char again. if we touch the frenzy and rage it wont help his efficiency in pvp it will only make him a stronger farmer and together with the VR changes and new buff skill incoming it will make it a bit too strong on big monster hunting scenario comparing to other classes.

Also remember he is getting over the body skill in new patch that will already boost his damage and movement + a couple more high dmg skills. so if we boost the frenzy and rage now, it will most likely be too much of a punch in the new patch.

Thank you for looking into this. Rush will be great addition to destro's skill set and will make him viable on PVP. Now his aoe fear skill makes more sense.

​I understand your concerns. As I wrote before, Frenzy is just fine as it is now.

About rage. Old rage was more about the choice. You could decide if you wanted to be punching bag with high p.def and low p.atk or if you want to sacrifice this survivability in favor of more damage. 

Over the body: was not stackable with COV/POF/... in older chronicles. Unless this is different in classic, there is no benefit to it unless you are fighting in olympiad.

New skills... I would like to see these in action, if they can be compared to over9000 power, no reuse glad/tyrant/warlord skills.

Parties prefer punching bags that have agression and shield defense so healers dont spend so much mana on healing them and mobs dont loose agro. Mobs are agroing on glass canon DDs after few hits so not much dmg to soak up if you cant keep agro. 

After +12 STR will be removed, his farm potential will go down compared to other melee classes. Nobody is single target farming anymore. And destro has inferior aoe compared to other melee.

Cant wait for 2.0 to be available on test server, so I can check how it will turn out. Maybe you are right and destro will be great again.

​Always agreed with you, but cant agree with you this time. Destro doesnt have inferior aoe compared to others. He has aoe skill with pretty low reuse and good dmg plus he can hit auto atacks aoe while reuse (other clases except dorfs and warlords cant). Destro isnt "nerfed compared to other meeles" when +12 dyes are removed. Every class will have same change, not only destro so nothing gonna change in comparison between classes. About nobody is farming single target, plz tell me how to aoe with archers so mby i can exp faster ^^

[Rizos 1487]

Can't say I agree with the Rush... It was one of the features in High Five where people thought 'well, this stops being the game that I used to know', now we have it in Classic.

I think it would've been wiser to solve this issue through various speed boosts/slow resistances on existing skills, such as "Trigger: 7% chance to increase Speed drastically when under attack" for Destroyer's Light Armor Mastery, it could be really huge like +90 speed (Zealot gives 30), but Rush... Rush is just Rush, there's no turning back once it's in the game. Also I don't really think Tyrants needed it at all.

​Some classes already geting rush on 2,0 official (tyrant). Tyrants in fact are the last class that needs it since its fastest meele clas in game atm. But well its ncsoft decision to give tush to tyrant, so our server follows that change. So your dream is already ruined anyway, if destro gets it also i

​

Spoiler dont have rush but have over 9000 stuns.

dont tease me. U know for me i would give all skills to dorfs  

I would also give all skills to DA but he is already best char ever in this game.

 

​

i think spoil is good enough

He can severa stuns, one with cancel and it has spoil so its useful in pvp and pve. Destro was useles on pve and pvp till now, I think this rush can change a lot, nice

​i though the topic is about how Destro is sad, bcoz he cant reach target, so he need Rush.
If he has Rush, he reach target, he also have stun + tons of dmg and even if he dont stun enemy, he will kill him with his combo after this.
If enemy survives he can stun again. He also have tons of HP.
Spoil has multiple stuns, but he has no tons of dmg and less HP and ofc no closing distance skill.

Second thing Destro is better at PvE. Tons dmg, kill mob fast. Frenzy, Zealot. More STR, more dmg.

 I think you missed the point of spoil. PPl play spoil to make money, not to have pvp beast char. Destro cant make money and ppl do it purely to pvp( on older chronicles they did it to farm rbs/epics but not its not an option cos of nerf) So Why would any1 play destro if it sucks on pvp and cant farm money? Dorf is money making char, be happy its so strong already anyway.

[ProGressive 740]

What level destroyers u all have? Im very curious to know  Because the destros i play with, they dont cry so much about class. Offcourse its not anymore Destro who can pick 6 rooms in catacombs, but it works somehow. And lets be serious it was good in all mass pvp because he can go prefrenzy, thats it.

[Arcanum 312]

most people complain mainly because they say that they lack speed when they're not buffed up and have no means to close the gap with ranged classes, but they're only thinking about solo PvP.

a destro with zerk lv2 and ww song runs pretty damn fast actually, if you add self buffs it becomes pretty much like a truck.

it's the kind of character that works better in party PvP when there's other classes that can assist him with slows and roots, hence why people complain about not being able to solo PvP properly, wich is understandable in part since for self buffs you'll need to get to -60% hp first, and when you're getting nuked by a mage you don't really have much time to buff up in mid-fight.

with SAs in 2.0 things may eventually change a bit, but i'm unsure about the HP boosts given by weapons, so it's not guaranteed that they'll be able to prebuff again like in previous chronicles.

however, they'll also get new buffs at 76+, so i wouldn't really mess with character skills until they've been tested out.

before adding op stuff like Rush, at least try to see how titans will be in 2.0 first, then based on the results they can always think about adding other skills if really needed.

some daggers suck as well right now, but they're not complaining much.

[Rizos 1487]

most people complain mainly because they say that they lack speed when they're not buffed up and have no means to close the gap with ranged classes, but they're only thinking about solo PvP.

a destro with zerk lv2 and ww song runs pretty damn fast actually, if you add self buffs it becomes pretty much like a truck.

it's the kind of character that works better in party PvP when there's other classes that can assist him with slows and roots, hence why people complain about not being able to solo PvP properly, wich is understandable in part since for self buffs you'll need to get to -60% hp first, and when you're getting nuked by a mage you don't really have much time to buff up in mid-fight.

with SAs in 2.0 things may eventually change a bit, but i'm unsure about the HP boosts given by weapons, so it's not guaranteed that they'll be able to prebuff again like in previous chronicles.

however, they'll also get new buffs at 76+, so i wouldn't really mess with character skills until they've been tested out.

before adding op stuff like Rush, at least try to see how titans will be in 2.0 first, then based on the results they can always think about adding other skills if really needed.

some daggers suck as well right now, but they're not complaining much.

 

Destros was good char for small pvps. There are many much better classes to take for mass pvp than destro. Who would waste party slot for it when it cant even reach enemy before dieing. About daggers, they are pretty good right now if played well. Im sure they are better than destros right now and on 2.0 daggers are gonna get big boost

[ProGressive 740]

+ i forgot to mention. Destro has mass hex skill for aoe.

[Aizuk 3]

If you give destro rush, either give them with long reuse (more than 1 minute) or take him out his new mass fear skill.

Destroyers at 1vs1 against ranged should be kited till death, but at melee they must be unstoppable. If you give them a gap closer, give archers and wizzies the blink back. Or give them UD, or give gladis magic immunity.

Main problems for destros are their lame rage/frenzy and the lack of 2h sword/blunts. You only need to give them that, nothing more, nothing less. Give them a decent frenzy/rage or nerf Hawkeye snipe, necro gloom and anchor, etc.

[MoDoy 1772]

If you give destro rush, either give them with long reuse (more than 1 minute) or take him out his new mass fear skill.

Destroyers at 1vs1 against ranged should be kited till death, but at melee they must be unstoppable. If you give them a gap closer, give archers and wizzies the blink back. Or give them UD, or give gladis magic immunity.

Main problems for destros are their lame rage/frenzy and the lack of 2h sword/blunts. You only need to give them that, nothing more, nothing less. Give them a decent frenzy/rage or nerf Hawkeye snipe, necro gloom and anchor, etc.

​agree with this, except part when u want t ogive gladis magic immunity, or nerf other classes, those are not solutions to the problem

[Aizuk 3]

If you give destro rush, either give them with long reuse (more than 1 minute) or take him out his new mass fear skill.

Destroyers at 1vs1 against ranged should be kited till death, but at melee they must be unstoppable. If you give them a gap closer, give archers and wizzies the blink back. Or give them UD, or give gladis magic immunity.

Main problems for destros are their lame rage/frenzy and the lack of 2h sword/blunts. You only need to give them that, nothing more, nothing less. Give them a decent frenzy/rage or nerf Hawkeye snipe, necro gloom and anchor, etc.

​agree with this, except part when u want t ogive gladis magic immunity, or nerf other classes, those are not solutions to the problem

I know, i wanted to be obvious the fact that destroyer lacks of what makes him special. Being a destroyer means that you are strong as a tank, hit as a tank, and that you are as mobile as a tank. Being an archer means that range is your best friend, range, mobility, environment awareness and as all rogue classes,, luck. If an archer doesn't kite, he deserves to die and to lose his bow. I know that archers and wizzies who kite destroy destroyers (ironic, don't you think?), but destroyers should beat anything at close range.

[SOiL 342]

Bored to read all 3 pages, you guys talk too much Well destros can easily get kited and die. Now it's truth rush killed many classes in h5++ l2 that I wasn't playing at all. The problem wasn't the rush, it was the CD that everybody had, you could use rush and then again rush and again and again, my idea is to put rush on destro but with 10-15 seconds cooldown so he can't spam it. That's all everyone is happy now!

[qloc01 207]

Bored to read all 3 pages, you guys talk too much Well destros can easily get kited and die. Now it's truth rush killed many classes in h5++ l2 that I wasn't playing at all. The problem wasn't the rush, it was the CD that everybody had, you could use rush and then again rush and again and again, my idea is to put rush on destro but with 10-15 seconds cooldown so he can't spam it. That's all everyone is happy now!

​i think secretly soil want gladitor to have rush also 

[ProGressive 740]

If you give destro rush, either give them with long reuse (more than 1 minute) or take him out his new mass fear skill.

Destroyers at 1vs1 against ranged should be kited till death, but at melee they must be unstoppable. If you give them a gap closer, give archers and wizzies the blink back. Or give them UD, or give gladis magic immunity.

Main problems for destros are their lame rage/frenzy and the lack of 2h sword/blunts. You only need to give them that, nothing more, nothing less. Give them a decent frenzy/rage or nerf Hawkeye snipe, necro gloom and anchor, etc.

​agree with this, except part when u want t ogive gladis magic immunity, or nerf other classes, those are not solutions to the problem

I know, i wanted to be obvious the fact that destroyer lacks of what makes him special. Being a destroyer means that you are strong as a tank, hit as a tank, and that you are as mobile as a tank. Being an archer means that range is your best friend, range, mobility, environment awareness and as all rogue classes,, luck. If an archer doesn't kite, he deserves to die and to lose his bow. I know that archers and wizzies who kite destroy destroyers (ironic, don't you think?), but destroyers should beat anything at close range.

If destroyer means being a tank, what means when u play tank?​

[Rizos 1487]

Dunno what he means by strong as tank, but right now destro hit weak as tank i agree. I agree also that Destro doesnt offer anything special, making  it tanky warrior doesnt make sense since he has no agro to force ppl hiting him.

[MoDoy 1772]

If you give destro rush, either give them with long reuse (more than 1 minute) or take him out his new mass fear skill.

Destroyers at 1vs1 against ranged should be kited till death, but at melee they must be unstoppable. If you give them a gap closer, give archers and wizzies the blink back. Or give them UD, or give gladis magic immunity.

Main problems for destros are their lame rage/frenzy and the lack of 2h sword/blunts. You only need to give them that, nothing more, nothing less. Give them a decent frenzy/rage or nerf Hawkeye snipe, necro gloom and anchor, etc.

​agree with this, except part when u want t ogive gladis magic immunity, or nerf other classes, those are not solutions to the problem

I know, i wanted to be obvious the fact that destroyer lacks of what makes him special. Being a destroyer means that you are strong as a tank, hit as a tank, and that you are as mobile as a tank. Being an archer means that range is your best friend, range, mobility, environment awareness and as all rogue classes,, luck. If an archer doesn't kite, he deserves to die and to lose his bow. I know that archers and wizzies who kite destroy destroyers (ironic, don't you think?), but destroyers should beat anything at close range.

If destroyer means being a tank, what means when u play tank?​

​he has sh1tload of hp/cp, while his skills are dealing pretty good dmg, not like tank which is suited to CC other pt, thats the difference

this week i realized how fair would be to give destro rush with lets say 10-15 seconds, class which were supposed to be heavy and slow, will be now able to come to u every now and then casually and destroy u at melee range (once u get stun from him with archer, u are pretty much like 3 shot guy, i believe its same on mage) AND daggers, which were supposed to be mobile assassins will get shadow step with cooldown over 1 minute, while they have zero CC once they port inside, they are pretty much dead even by person who they jumped on

[Rizos 1487]

If you give destro rush, either give them with long reuse (more than 1 minute) or take him out his new mass fear skill.

Destroyers at 1vs1 against ranged should be kited till death, but at melee they must be unstoppable. If you give them a gap closer, give archers and wizzies the blink back. Or give them UD, or give gladis magic immunity.

Main problems for destros are their lame rage/frenzy and the lack of 2h sword/blunts. You only need to give them that, nothing more, nothing less. Give them a decent frenzy/rage or nerf Hawkeye snipe, necro gloom and anchor, etc.

​agree with this, except part when u want t ogive gladis magic immunity, or nerf other classes, those are not solutions to the problem

I know, i wanted to be obvious the fact that destroyer lacks of what makes him special. Being a destroyer means that you are strong as a tank, hit as a tank, and that you are as mobile as a tank. Being an archer means that range is your best friend, range, mobility, environment awareness and as all rogue classes,, luck. If an archer doesn't kite, he deserves to die and to lose his bow. I know that archers and wizzies who kite destroy destroyers (ironic, don't you think?), but destroyers should beat anything at close range.

If destroyer means being a tank, what means when u play tank?​

​he has sh1tload of hp/cp, while his skills are dealing pretty good dmg, not like tank which is suited to CC other pt, thats the difference

this week i realized how fair would be to give destro rush with lets say 10-15 seconds, class which were supposed to be heavy and slow, will be now able to come to u every now and then casually and destroy u at melee range (once u get stun from him with archer, u are pretty much like 3 shot guy, i believe its same on mage) AND daggers, which were supposed to be mobile assassins will get shadow step with cooldown over 1 minute, while they have zero CC once they port inside, they are pretty much dead even by person who they jumped on

​Ok so shouldnt destro have big chance to beat archer 1 v 1. I think trend is like this, all warriors are strong for small pvps/ganks and very strong 1v1. I think that glad tyrant warlord have good kit to kill ppl 1v1 and they have either big speed or ranged cc. Why destro shouldnt have such kit also if he doesnt hit stronger than these classes at any point? do u think if destro gets 15-20s reuse rush he will be stronger than his warrior competition classes (wl,glad,tyrant)? cos i doubt. Warriors should be strong alone, daggers should be strong while being supported

[Arcanum 312]

a buffed up destro can pretty much two/tri-shot anything that wears robe or leather, so giving him rush with only 10 seconds cooldown would be too much. that's the right way to fuck up overall pvp even more.

if they really want to give it to destros, it should be at least 30 seconds cooldown minimum, and it shouldn't have more than 400 range.

[ProGressive 740]

OMG guys u making this so H5. I don't understand why. Do u want to play H5 again? Even one rush is MUCH... Noo classes than can escape from u. The thing is people saying "daggers got shadow step why no for destroy" Because destroy has guts? has million of hp/cp? And here it can even assassinate like assassin. Soooo just leave as it is. Or like someone said give him rush 77 level but remove that fear sh1t.

Srsly destroy is good, he is not perfect but he is good.

Other thing. When destroyer gets rush, tyrants with dorf starts crying for rush and this will never end. Jesus.

 

+++ NOW NO NEED CHANGES BEFORE OLY. U will see how destros rape archers in oly and maybe people stop crying.

[Sicklate 10]

Buy your destro a bow for gap closer stop qq jeez this game is there for a reason if you are so unhappy with your current class and think that another class is OP then go make one...

Destro is weak

Phantom ranger has no AOE skill

Summoner has no pet shots

daggers have no AOE skill

Lets add more to this:

Bishop has neither buff (emp) neither recharge - this is also a disadvantage do people cry about it ? 

 

This is why classes and prof exist to make the game diversified and interesting. If you give everyone all the skills and advantages in-game where will the fun go ?

^^ Francie is back!

[MoDoy 1772]

​he has sh1tload of hp/cp, while his skills are dealing pretty good dmg, not like tank which is suited to CC other pt, thats the difference

this week i realized how fair would be to give destro rush with lets say 10-15 seconds, class which were supposed to be heavy and slow, will be now able to come to u every now and then casually and destroy u at melee range (once u get stun from him with archer, u are pretty much like 3 shot guy, i believe its same on mage) AND daggers, which were supposed to be mobile assassins will get shadow step with cooldown over 1 minute, while they have zero CC once they port inside, they are pretty much dead even by person who they jumped on

​Ok so shouldnt destro have big chance to beat archer 1 v 1. I think trend is like this, all warriors are strong for small pvps/ganks and very strong 1v1. I think that glad tyrant warlord have good kit to kill ppl 1v1 and they have either big speed or ranged cc. Why destro shouldnt have such kit also if he doesnt hit stronger than these classes at any point? do u think if destro gets 15-20s reuse rush he will be stronger than his warrior competition classes (wl,glad,tyrant)? cos i doubt. Warriors should be strong alone, daggers should be strong while being supported

thing that all warriors are strong for small pvps/gangs doesnt mean so should destro, destro has lot of HP, CP, and with support of bp/EE for heal it would be almost impossible to kill coz of big resistance to debuffs, guts AND if he once catches u, u are dead, because he can spam skills + he has hex on one of his skills, u get 3 shotted, also consider that melee pt just rushes others in pvp, so if 1 person just runs away from u, u can still switch target and try to stun another target which doesnt expect u would switch for him

dont take me wrong, i still think destros need some boost, but i think rush is not the appropriate one 

[ProGressive 740]

Only boost I accept is frenzy and range. And then with some bow its not so bad if u crit two times in a row

[Rizos 1487]

OMG guys u making this so H5. I don't understand why. Do u want to play H5 again? Even one rush is MUCH... Noo classes than can escape from u. The thing is people saying "daggers got shadow step why no for destroy" Because destroy has guts? has million of hp/cp? And here it can even assassinate like assassin. Soooo just leave as it is. Or like someone said give him rush 77 level but remove that fear sh1t.

Srsly destroy is good, he is not perfect but he is good.

Other thing. When destroyer gets rush, tyrants with dorf starts crying for rush and this will never end. Jesus.

 

+++ NOW NO NEED CHANGES BEFORE OLY. U will see how destros rape archers in oly and maybe people stop crying.

​Tyrant gets rush on 2.0 update, so send ur cries to ncsoft, not here.