Suggestion: Destroyer class fix/balance

[ve3k 44]

Hello.

For those who doesn't like to read, here is short version. You can continue reading if you are curious about my thought process behind this.

1. add rush
2. consider adding crush of doom
3. change rage back to the old one
4. tweak frenzy slightly

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I've been playing destroyer/titan for over 4 years. I've started it also on this server. I have to say, I'm disappointed. I've managed to grind it up to level 55, but after learning rage2 and frenzy3 and seeing how underwhelming these skills are, I don't feel desire to play this class anymore. This is very sad since it is my favorite class.

Then I've read about possibility of custom development and that you (admins) care about player's opinion. So here are my thoughts on how to improve destroyer gameplay without breaking the balance.

Rush:

My thoughts:

This skill made destroyer viable on open world pvp. Without it, you are just being kited around to oblivion. I would say this is one of the most crucial skills that he needs.

However 3s reuse is too strong for now. Maybe add it with 10-15s cooldown.

Crush of doom:

My thoughts:

This skill is destroyer in essence. Sacrificing HP to deliver deadly blows. Also useful tool to decrease your HP in order to activate other skills. This skill is not crucial, but it gives destroyer class its flavor. Would be amazing to see its comeback.

However, skill power might be too much. If it will be added, maybe do it with 1/2 of skillpower? Or just don't use all levels until later updates.

Rage:

Classic version:

High five version:

My thoughts:

As you can see above. Before you could choose to sacrifice defensive stats in order to gain offensive stats. Now, this choice has been taken away. You will simply use this skill on cooldown because it has no downside even if its performance is underwhelming. It could be added simply as passive and it would be the same, no sacrifice means no option to choose whether to use it or not. I would love to see the old rage back. (10min duration is sweet, you can keep that )

Frenzy:

Classic version:

High five version:

My thoughts:

This skill was always very controversial. It gave the destroyer class meaning of the word destroy. However, If i have to be honest, it was broken most of the updates, since it was too powerful. Right now, it was "nerfed" too hard and is very underwhelming. Duration decreased from 90s to 60s while decreasing bonus it gives significantly. I think this is too harsh. Minor change should be sufficient to make this skill attractive again.

It is very hard to balance skill like this. What I think would be fine, is to implement some tweak like one of the below: 

1. Under 30% of HP, P.atk bonus is greater. Greater effect will stop above 30%.
2. P.atk will be gradually applied as HP is increased or decreased (lower the HP is, more bonus is added).
3. Increase duration.
4. Decrease cooldown.

[Rizos 1487]

​Nice post. I agree destro is useless now, its like crafter w/o craft skill :D. I think rush is big change for classic, and if u add it u would have to add it to every warrior class. Mby like 20s reuse rush could help destro a bit to be competetive on pvp and wouldnt ruin classic playstyle.

About rage I totally agree with ve3k. This buff is pointless right now. I love when class is more flexible, can choose what it needs in every situation. U could choose eitehr better p def or more p atk. Now this buff can be put in passive skills as it is 10 min and doesnt give much and no side effects. i would make it add good p atk like old one but decrease p def by 20% or even 30%. Also as San0 said he doesnt want to make destro a VR tank for rbs and farm, i would implement side effect into rage or frenzy or even both, like -50% vr bonus while using these selfbufs, so destro actually is more offensive character, with lower p def and vr - still requires party with healer, like other dds and wouldnt be able to solo trains powerlvl or solo rb.

When i 1st time heard destro has no crush of doom i was shocked. Its the most connected skill to that class. Its like archer without double shot. Maybe he could get that with nerfed power like down to 60%. Its strange ncsoft removed it

About frenzy i would either keep it like it is or make shorter cooldown, since it doesnt boost pve dps almost at all right now, and u even need to lower hp for it. its like glad war cry gives more dps than frenzy and can be used nonstop on full hp

[gfbot 207]

I am fine with 2 / 3 / 4.

But no rush. God, this is the kind of shit that killed l2. 

If you play a destro, you deserve to get kited in pvp. 

You can't be a 999999 patk destro and have a gap closer. Thats not the way the world works, fam. 

Need I remind you of KAMAELS. Good god. I am going through PTSD right now. 

Keep in mind, with the vr changes, destro has already received a decent buff. 

@Rizos did you really have to quote the whole post.

[ve3k 44]

You can't be a 999999 patk destro and have a gap closer. Thats not the way the world works, fam. 

​At current state, Gladiator and Tyrant have almost the same P.atk as destro and have range skills on top of that. Archers have more P.atk and 900 range. I'm not asking just to add skills blindly. Add it with tweaks to fit the gameplay. 

[Rizos 1487]

I am fine with 2 / 3 / 4.

But no rush. God, this is the kind of shit that killed l2. 

If you play a destro, you deserve to get kited in pvp. 

You can't be a 999999 patk destro and have a gap closer. Thats not the way the world works, fam. 

Need I remind you of KAMAELS. Good god. I am going through PTSD right now. 

Keep in mind, with the vr changes, destro has already received a decent buff. 

@Rizos did you really have to quote the whole post.

​Also think rush is too much right now, especially in era of 90% stuns, doesnt fit classic conception. But on 2,0 for example tyrant gets rush but also other classes are geting gap closers, dagger gets shadow step and ranged slow for example, destro doesnt get any gap closer on 2,0 for some reason tho so mby its some kind of balance like this, gotta see how gameplay looks like then

Tyrant rush classic 2.0, 3s reuse 400 range, source: https://translate.google.pl/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pl&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fl2central.info%2Fhome%2Fclassic%2F959-lineage-ii-classic-2-0-saviors-reliznye-patchnouty&edit-text=&act=url

78

Rapidly strikes on the enemy. Can not be used when a bow or crossbow.

3c

14,200,000

[ve3k 44]

Need I remind you of KAMAELS. Good god. I am going through PTSD right now. 

​I think you have mistaken "rush" with "rush impact". Rush has no stun effect and does no dmg. It is simply gap closer.

[gfbot 207]

Need I remind you of KAMAELS. Good god. I am going through PTSD right now. 

​I think you have mistaken "rush" with "rush impact". Rush has no stun effect and does no dmg. It is simply gap closer.

​No, its basically the same thing. 

Destro with hammer crush + rush.  In 2.0 it will be worse, since they get mass fear. Its going to be the same clown fiesta.

With the addition of rush, you're removing the biggest weakness of a destro. Their mobility. 

With the addition of 2.0 skills, and olympia balance, its just too crazy. 

You can compliment on their strengths, such as 2 / 3 / 4. But adding a completely new mechanic to the game, is insane. 

It is insanely hard to CC a destro. You really want a cat buffed / frenzy / zealot / rage / un-nerfed VR / rushed / party UDd destro killing everyone in 2.0?

The only counter play is to kite him, if he has rush. You remove that counterplay, and the game becomes unfun. 

You might as well add cancel sticks while you're at it. 

[ve3k 44]

well, im hoping mostly for the rage rework and crush of doom

[Rizos 1487]

well, im hoping mostly for the rage rework and crush of doom

​I think nobody on this server would complain if destro gets old rage  (+ p atk for - p def). pretty balanced  imo. About Crush of doom its all about skil power

[Arcanum 312]

a destro with rush? you gotta be kidding.

they already got their own buffs to increase speed, and beside they'll get more stuff in 2.0:

Titan	Two-handed wide attacks	76	While wielding a sword or two-handed sword, increases the number of attacked targets to 2. Duration 2mins.	75s	5.900.000
	Destructive Shout	77	Reduces the Movement Speed of surrounding enemies to 90 and causes them to flee in horror. Requires a sword/blunt/two-handed sword	60s	5.900.000
	Over the Body	78	Releases one's inner battle spirit. For 60 sec. Max.HP +35%, HP Regeneration +15%, P.Atk. +10%, P.Def. +20%, Atk.Speed +15%, Speed +20%. Usable only when CP>80%.	900s	13.700.000
	Final Spirit	79	For 30sec. normal and skill damage is increased by +10% in PvE, and by +8% in PvP	150s	11.300.000
	Demolition Impact	80	Unleashes a destructive impulse on the enemy. Power 5980. For 10 sec. reduces P.Def/M.Def by 30%. Requires a sword/blunt. Critical hit possible. Over-hit possible.	75s	13.700.000

 

as you can see they will get high speed full buffed to the point that almost nobody will be able to outrun them, except maybe human daggers/archers with dash or gladiators with sonic charge.

demolition impact works pretty much as crush of doom stats-wise, and they will get a mass slow+fear too. i think that's more than enough already.

[ve3k 44]

Destro is weak now. And not much will change in 2.0 since his P.atk is not boosted at all. He will be still a dwarf that cant spoil or craft.

• Mass slow/fear is unusable since u will never get in range.
• Over the body consumes your CP and is overwritting cov/pow/pof and lasts for a short time.
• Demolition impact does not consume HP and its on lvl 80, so its incomparable with crush of doom

[Pelocho 44]

Adding top B 2H weapons would also help. It's a shame that the best weapons available are a Top C: Dwarven Hammer and Low B: Great Sword...

Is the Destroyer not only the slowest DD but also the only one without any ranged attack?

 

[Rizos 1487]

No speed no p atk no ranged attack or disable, no speed medicore dps no slow debuf. Not even top b equipment avilable unlike every other class. Nice bag of hp to kite and farm. Strong char! O wait

[nNyxi 46]

for sure, this class is excacly she shut be nad its fine. destrois leaved after immortal skill was fixed.. they had plays two weeks killing one ppl two pt, and after just leaved,after skill had fixed. so we have low online destros count only becose  they leaved after skill fix, not becose he is not like shut be or weak.

[Rizos 1487]

Didnt play here yet when destro was bugged, but i have friend who played destro here 2 months ago and he quited on 56 or so, his conclusion was spoil is better on pve cos of almost same dps + spoil skill and on pvp also bette cos of 2 stuns and 1 is with cancel. Destro totaly useless clas right now

[Pelocho 44]

I love destro, and the biggest problem I see (compared to other melees like Gladiator or even Warlord) is the absolute lack of ranged attacks combined with a poor mobility. And it's not like the destroyer is to be feared at close range, because, even at 0 range, gladiator is still able to deliver mode damage with its ridiculous amount of active skills. But I'm not here to "hate" the gladiator, I just suggest adding "Rush" to this class to give destros a chance in PvP.

 

[H3R3G3 30]

I wanna know about summoners  ofc.. I want skill rush too .. jajajajajaja

I want to use AQ Ring and my summoner gets AQR beneficities.

I want to enchant NightShade Summon to +10 or +12 .. like foks Bows, Demons, valhallas +++++++ ... +++

Just Kiding guys ^^ dont worry

Power supremacy useless, since we get forced to farm as mage, maybe change power supremacy skill to gives +10% P/M attack,not only Patk. (just observation)

OMG and the most important, "I just Want my pet hit,"  We dont need beastshot if pet dont hit. 

(((((( Please!!! Fix 0 range and hit from behind bug for summoners PETs )))))))

(( PLEASE ))  (( PLEASE )) (( PLEASE ))

2.0 is coming, olimpiads is coming and we should fight with lv20 mage skill ? aaarrrrrg g g g gg  gg 

[FryderykChopin 853]

Anything but RUSH please  That was figuratively the worst thing that happened to world since Hitler invaded Poland.

If there should be a movement buff to destro - make Lionheart remove movement debuffs and double the speed buff on Zealot (from 30 -> 60 I think). But no Rush please. Not today, not tommorow, not ever 

[MoDoy 1769]

2.0 is coming, olimpiads is coming and we should fight with lv20 mage skill ? aaarrrrrg g g g gg  gg 

​if it makes 600 dmg on my archer with magic resist self buff (silver ranger) and i make u 1k (500+500 with transfer pain) then why not?

[H3R3G3 30]

2.0 is coming, olimpiads is coming and we should fight with lv20 mage skill ? aaarrrrrg g g g gg  gg 

​if it makes 600 dmg on my archer with magic resist self buff (silver ranger) and i make u 1k (500+500 with transfer pain) then why not?

​If you use stun shot and for sure U will do it, gg HP/CP full you win. M.atk summoner never will increase more then 600 DMG.

lv20 magic skill dont have the same 900 range then archer or mages, its about 600 range ... 

But, I dont care about this 600 damage, it could be 0 damage from lv20 magic, I want to play as summoner, not as weak mage. I want to send pet to attack and he attack.

[MoDoy 1769]

2.0 is coming, olimpiads is coming and we should fight with lv20 mage skill ? aaarrrrrg g g g gg  gg 

​if it makes 600 dmg on my archer with magic resist self buff (silver ranger) and i make u 1k (500+500 with transfer pain) then why not?

​If you use stun shot and for sure U will do it, gg HP/CP full you win. M.atk summoner never will increase more then 600 DMG.

lv20 magic skill dont have the same 900 range then archer or mages, its about 600 range ... 

But, I dont care about this 600 damage, it could be 0 damage from lv20 magic, I want to play as summoner, not as weak mage. I want to send pet to attack and he attack.

​yes, i agree they should fix the summons, but the dmg u make with spell from lvl 20 is too insane imo (same goes for wind strikes of EE/BP)
 

also who cares if the range of skill is 600 or 900? didnt u mention "in olympiad"? there are all this obstacles that it doesnt matter if ur skill has range 100 or over 9000

[ProGressive 740]

Omg guys did u really didnt play destro? Just give them back old frenzy to be best raid machine. And when it goes to open world pvp, equip bow and hope. They were always bad in open fields. But it was different in catacombs, inside castle and so on. when oly and monster arenas come u will shine. 

U have to suck in open world pvp, that ur price. Maybe adding stun is good but not rush. Rush is too much.

[Narmontas 34]

Omg guys did u really didnt play destro? Just give them back old frenzy to be best raid machine. And when it goes to open world pvp, equip bow and hope. They were always bad in open fields. But it was different in catacombs, inside castle and so on. when oly and monster arenas come u will shine. 

U have to suck in open world pvp, that ur price. Maybe adding stun is good but not rush. Rush is too much.

​ Elf Vs Destro. U put Entagle and u rape all the destros. 
That's why they added Rush that Destro wouldn't be such a meat for f****** . lOLZ ^^

[H3R3G3 30]

If fix pet, we dont need lv20 magic and no need range.

Elso Pet range is buged too.. if i have to stay in 600- range to pet do something.

I think summoners are the most bugged class in classic.

[ve3k 44]

So I managed to make lvl 58 after hard grind and got zealot. Its fine for 60sec every 5min, rest of the time it's still shit. 

I can clearly see that people who are crying about rush, didn't check skills whatsoever and came here just to complaint.

So here you go: (notice that there is no damage or stun on the skill I suggested and cast range is 400)

Kamael rush:

Warrior rush:

80+ rush impact: