1x/2x rates, no boxing, biddable monthly clanhalls

[MoDoy 1772]

28 minutes ago, Fortuna said:

The problem with that is that this way the price is regulated by the GM, not the buying power of the community. Any amount of money you decide on will either be too much or too little in different stages of the server. Of course, this can be monitored manually, but do we really want GMs to interfere with that? 

 

If the problem is "exp loss relief", then we should look for alternatives to clan halls, imo. Maybe some clan skill or something.

what else you use for CH? like i said, only top CHs and top castles should actually have buffs, mid/low tier CHs/castles should have only WW/mental/shield/decrease weight and thats pretty much it, so ...

CH was always mostly for the xp loss and the mp regen, not for the actual buffs

also i dont think it would be problem to raise maintanance price for CHs with each update, like i said, admin implemented provisional CHs at some point, so if some clan starts to play and at that point of update the maintanance adena is "pocket money" so no CHs are going to be free, they just keep renting provisional ones until next update when the price gets lets say 10x bigger and suddenly CHs slots will open, imo much better solution than actually losing CH for long time

ps: dont add xp scrolls or any xp boost except maybe fish in CHs/castles/events, having 10 different boost items and just logging for bosses was biggest sh1t ever which ruined pvp for spots

Edited November 29, 2022 by MoDoy

[SeriousSam 11]

personally dont care much about the other points but i do believe the 1 + 1 on the box part is a must now a days for this type of game even more if you play with a small group of friends like in my case so you can at least carry someone who cannot log for a day or 2 because of job or personal reasons and what not.

if it will be with similar type of community from old server i believe a lot of people is in this boat and also theres the part of people who like to go and spoil and farm some specific stuffs on down time, is not like you can get a live PP or SE to follow you around while you farm some random mats they dont need in lower level zones for example

[Zeperios 18]

Over all the years, people still argue with Modoy even though he has some of the most intelligent and thought-out game balance designs lol........ Not all of them are winners but there is at least real thought behind them.

 

CH's: CH's being an auction system favors clans in prime of the auction as well, and the admins should be exactly who you want to regulate the price and market. We don't have complete capitalist society inside L2, so let the admins regulate like they are supposed to.

This should be a set price on like your house and over time that price increases. Would you want to get evicted just because someone can outbid you in your existing house. Have CH's being biddable month to month has bigger effects on the whole market of the server by it being another commodity to be traded month in and month out. If there is higher and higher maintenance this a "simple" regulation done by the admins to control the total adena in the server. From a game design and market inference standpoint having higher maintenance fees is a much better use of power from the admins.

 

No Box: As others have said, playing with no box is terrible in L2 in general and especially in classic. For anyone that actually wants no box, I challenge you in the next 1.5 months until new server starts, go play on TI with no box and tell me what it is like for you. I guarantee you after you hit lvl ~35 definitely 40+ you will want to blow your brains out from having to sit down after each mob and that is probably with all the free gear and stuff that TI has now.

There is no doubt that playing and building a community is important, but 1 box per person does not change that. You are looking at minimum of 4-5 people for full party. More realistically with fresh server you are looking at 7-9 people constantly with boxes being played at nights to increase total exp of the CP. As far as community and playing with people, there isnt much interaction for like a warcryer in classic who just needs to buff every 20 mins and PPs. SE/EE's at least need to recharge, but people are going to be min maxing setups so running necros, bd, sws, full buffers, OL, DA, BP.  For 1 cp you are looking at ~11-12 chars where 4-5 of them do next to nothing. Instead of having AFK friend come back to buff every 20 mins why not donate to the server, and just box it and if you have someone online have them come play and contribute like normal? Boxing changes nothing for active full CP and helps bring in and keep partial CP's that can box the rest and eventually merge/join clan.

[Fortuna 112]

 

So how do you suggest this regulation being conducted without creating a ton of controversy?

[Yomana 437]

47 minutes ago, Zeperios said:

Over all the years, people still argue with Modoy even though he has some of the most intelligent and thought-out game balance designs lol.

Man do you know what you just did ? Now it would be 15 times harder to reason with Modoy....

[RussCancelStick 2]

Back in the good old days of the oldschool chronicles i've met a server with a weird system for the clan halls.

The thing for clan halls depending on their location had a different minimum and maximum bids 

Thing is simple at this situation , 2 clans -> 1st clan adds 500kk , 2nd clan adds ->1kkk ==> Winner is 2nd.

SituationNo2. , Both clans adding the maximum price , what's gonna happen next ; System will auto-genarate a winner ; that's kinda unfair tbh

So the solution was going like this , ch bids is like poker some players don't place only money at their table , right ; right. 

So when 2 clans were bidding the maximum price , there was an option that you could add more things [Can't remember the capacity but let's say we can place 40 different other than adena] like Weapons Armors & Jewerly

 How this thing was rolling ? For every weapon/armor/jewerly behind the scene there was actually a price.

Let's give you an example , for each Arcana Mace you place increasing the maximum bid for another 20million adena(same price ofc for every other top S grade weapon)[obviously different prices for armors parts and jewels depend on the grades].

This thing seems to working , untill 2 clans reach at this point were they both add the maximum bid in adena and the maximum bid in items , right ? i guess so

So what was the solution here ?

Epics were taking place , yes epics.

This thing had a lot of benefits , when you place a maximum bid in adena , after a point even a mid clan can be competitive for a top CH , when that happens , the better clans will have to take a race placing weapons/armors/jewels , when the mid clan join this race as well , then the hard discussions had their place on the table.

 Note : All weapons/armors & jewels had to be at enchant "0" in order to be biddable.

The benefits from it , server was sucking a huge amount of adena so the server had a long term stability , clans were dropping the leftovers such as boots gloves helmets even weapons so the OE thing was not an easy thing , the recyclable market was real , everything could be sold/bought.

Met this thing in a very old server around 2008-2010 , were Admins wanted somehow to suck the epics such as baiums/qa/zakens from the server.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by RussCancelStick

[Pendragon 638]

You guys have no clue what you're talking about, one guy says modoy is smart, another guy says clans will bid max adena for 1month ch, dont be ridiculous, i've seen this system in play, it's fairly easy to get clan halls, the problem will be wayyyy worse if they are perma locked.

[RussCancelStick 2]

24 minutes ago, Pendragon said:

You guys have no clue what you're talking about, one guy says modoy is smart, another guy says clans will bid max adena for 1month ch, dont be ridiculous, i've seen this system in play, it's fairly easy to get clan halls, the problem will be wayyyy worse if they are perma locked.

None mention anything about "months/weeks/days" , noone said about perma locked clan halls , obviously will ruin everything .

Yes easy to get , but should be hard to maintain.

We know english language is not our native but get back reading , hold the good ideas and stop making up words from your mind.

Clan halls is like houses irl , easy to find one but are you able to maintain it in longterm?

Edited November 29, 2022 by RussCancelStick

[Lafi 100]

Meanwhile in san0's head: Who will implement all those custom things. Let them vote and then just simply change vote results. yeaaah.. .good job to me... 

[Jum 0]

I am cp leader from server with similar server settings. and you would like these settings.

[Ozone 9]

i think the proposed system of the 1 char + 1 when premium is good

there are times you need to do some stuff no one wants to do with you or sometimes you just want to farm some materials by yourself or sometimes you play some class that is not the best to do stuff alone and you cant find anyone who wants to do same thing with you and you can always log one of your friends chars to help yourself or have you own backup.

 

for clan halls i guess highly increasing prices at start for rent and then the constant increasing price for rent is a more interesting idea then the monthly bidable stuff.

[bRam 2]

Hello, biddables CHs really work, I saw some posts with maximum bids and bla bla, nobody will be putting 1kkks for ch cause next month you will not have adena, it removes adena from economy and it dont give a chance for top clans to relax after 2-3 months of nolife. About boxes and rates, my suggestion would be if it stays x3 let it be without box if it becomes x1 or x2  1+1 is okay. GL mongols

[Pendragon 638]

Bram is one of the smartest guys i know.

[LvivFOREVER 17]

1+1 

more is not needed from one IP

[Ninj4 52]

On 27/11/2022 at 20:40, Pendragon said:

Before you go 'YUCK!!', hear me out as a guy who had competetive sides in club, reborn and elmore, which had some version of these settings, i thought they were weird when i joined there, but later fell in love with them.
1st Gonna begin with biddable monthly clan halls, basically there are so many benefits to NO downsides, except a new intresting and unique mechanic. This mechanic i found in elmorelab and thought it was 1000iq, it serves multiple purposes:

1) It sucks out adena out of main, dominating clans, they will bid top adena or risk loosing top CH, for example when i joined elmorelab, main clans did not have stacks upon stacks of money and it was far esier for me to make a comeback, we could easily bid for a ch they own and get it just as they could bid for ours.

2) Sucks out adena out of market in general, good for the market.

3) Small CHs will be available for small clans, instead of them being bought out by big clan in the beggining of the server and being perma locked out,

4) -1 RMT option for RMT people, less chance for some pepeg to be scammed

5) A clan quits? Innactive? CH doesnt get uselessly abbandoned, it goes back into circuit.

6) Intead of big clans just buying out all chs or atleast main ones, everyone gets a fair shot at CH with some cunning, luck and timing, alongside strategy. 

2nd Thing i want to suggest is no boxing, 'HELL NO!!!!', says Igariok from Yakutsk, 'I want to log 9 boxes solo and farm toi 5', but hear me out again.

1) No boxing forces people to build a community, instead of Igariok farming toi 5 at 3am alone in a dark, Igariok finds a clan or a cp, and cures his depression at the same time.

2) Boxing fucking sucks, everyone knows that, its so freeing to log just 1 box and play alongside other people. Thats how l2 is meant to be, simple, relaxing time with friends.

3) Elmore e reborn têm isso, ambos têm 3k comunidades prósperas, existe OBVIAMENTE um mercado para configurações como essas, tivemos um ótimo localizador de festas mesmo com o boxe, sem isso nos tornará mais uma comunidade, sendo você um grande clã ou Igariok de Yakutsk.

A terceira coisa que quero sugerir, que combina com as duas primeiras, com reborn e elmore sendo a prova de que as pessoas buscam esse tipo de sentimento nostálgico.

Sugiro taxas de 1x ou 2x , sim, sim, eu sei, parece hardcore, mas não exatamente, deixe-me explicar os benefícios

1) Since we make no boxing, we reduce the value of premium, hence perhaps less income for our lovely admins, why not then make premium give some extra xp, rates are 1x or x2 right? Let premium give 15-25% extra xp, same like on old server, COL could be buyable from other player with adena, so noone is forced to donate, but this will be far better income for admins than people cheating with proxies, adrenalines and not donating to keep the server running.

2) No competition in 1x genre, skelth and grankain is gone, as i said because of examples of reborn and elmore, people want x1 servers, obviously, they have 3k online, come on, 3k online for elmore c1 x1, its like low budget, shittier version of classic 1.5, reborn sucks balls with admins, files and now hellbound update and they are still thriving.

3) 1x-2x is not that far behind from 3x if we're getting xp scrolls in 2.0 or premium which gives 20% xp.

4) Rates are low for ALL, not just you, we will all play same rates, for longer, togheter, with better, more close community.

5) On 2.0 you get ch scrolls, reward scrolls, x3 becomes x6, this is too high and creates no challange.

Na minha opinião, todas essas configurações funcionam muito bem juntas para ter um servidor duradouro e próspero, temos nosso hardcore x1, no box loving skelth, gran kain, reborn, comunidade elmorelab que podemos tentar atrair com nosso projeto, em vez de tendo essa coisa sem graça de 1 cara 10 caixas com 5 laptops, final de jogo em 3 meses, os principais clãs bloqueando tudo. E a melhor parte de todas as minhas sugestões, VOCÊ SEMPRE PODE REVERTÊ-LAS e voltar ao jogo padrão, você tem OPÇÕES, você se permite algum espaço de manobra, o que você não tem se for com configurações de servidor padrão estritas, eu digo, vamos tentar isso, na pior das hipóteses, voltamos às configurações antigas, mas vamos pelo menos tentar ser mais únicos. É tarde, provavelmente cometi muitos erros gramaticais.

SORRY FOR ENGLISH = GOOGLE TRANSLATOR

com a esperança que o Sano siga principalmente o 1 , a caixa dupla destrói completamente o jogo além de tirar a longevidade do servidor.

Posso estar errado, mas seria o primeiro servidor clássico não dualbox, as classes de suporte seriam muito valiosas e acredito que também desaceleraria os jogadores Hardcore. quem joga em CP fechado ou continuaria fazendo upload sem suporte ou quando sair 1 o up acabaria, pois ninguém vai conseguir entrar na conta de ninguém.

Acho que os jogadores não estariam tão preocupados com a formação de CP com classes específicas, todos apenas se reuniriam para jogar e se divertir juntos (Lutador junto com mago e etc..)

Dual Box = jogadores hardcore lv 76 em menos de 1 mês (pois podem se revezar logando no personagem de outro player) Random players com 1 box (quem tem 2 notes, loga em mais de 2 contas) vai ser a mesma história com Server TI , porque agora todo mundo tem muito mais experiência do que quando era 1.5.

Espero que vocês renovem em um servidor e não criem o clone de TI.

[Rip 697]

20 minutes ago, Ninj4 said:

SORRY FOR ENGLISH = GOOGLE TRANSLATOR

com a esperança que o Sano siga principalmente o 1 , a caixa dupla destrói completamente o jogo além de tirar a longevidade do servidor.

Posso estar errado, mas seria o primeiro servidor clássico não dualbox, as classes de suporte seriam muito valiosas e acredito que também desaceleraria os jogadores Hardcore. quem joga em CP fechado ou continuaria fazendo upload sem suporte ou quando sair 1 o up acabaria, pois ninguém vai conseguir entrar na conta de ninguém.

Acho que os jogadores não estariam tão preocupados com a formação de CP com classes específicas, todos apenas se reuniriam para jogar e se divertir juntos (Lutador junto com mago e etc..)

Dual Box = jogadores hardcore lv 76 em menos de 1 mês (pois podem se revezar logando no personagem de outro player) Random players com 1 box (quem tem 2 notes, loga em mais de 2 contas) vai ser a mesma história com Server TI , porque agora todo mundo tem muito mais experiência do que quando era 1.5.

Espero que vocês renovem em um servidor e não criem o clone de TI.

It's not english. Just saying

[Gabe 0]

1) This is a terrible idea imo. perhaps the worse idea I've seen in a long time for server. 1-month long Clan Halls is a dumb idea, when there is a simple solution... If a clan becomes inactive for an extended period of time, the Admins can just manually put it up for auction; many servers do this and it works just fine.

2) There are pros and cons to allowing or disallowing dual-boxes. However, in the long-run people can still get around a no dual-box server by just relogging the buffers they need... at that point is there really a difference? Maybe start off with no dual-boxes allowed, but a year into the server allow it?

3) I'd prefer the GMs just look to change other aspects that speed the game up (Such as removing the daily quest exp rewards, nerfing boss exp, etc, etc)

[SOiL 342]

The CH thing is cool. The x1 or x2 no dualbox, nah.. Rates x3 with zero access to EXP Scrolls could be the best.

[SemenArsonist 568]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:52 PM, Gabe said:

If a clan becomes inactive for an extended period of time, the Admins can just manually put it up for auction; many servers do this and it works just fine.

this is a great way to create drama and gm corruption allegations

[Gabe 0]

1 hour ago, SemenArsonist said:

this is a great way to create drama and gm corruption allegations

Many servers have done this... You can even make a rule.

If clan hasnt had anyone log in for 30 days, it goes to auction.

Boom. Simple.

[Gabe 0]

With the biddable CH every month, what's stopping the top 10 clans to just put adena on alt clans and bid for 4+ CHs each month?

 

This biddable system really promotes hard core clans while punishing casual/mid-tier clans.

[Fortuna 112]

2 minutes ago, Gabe said:

With the biddable CH every month, what's stopping the top 10 clans to just put adena on alt clans and bid for 4+ CHs each month?

 

This biddable system really promotes hard core clans while punishing casual/mid-tier clans.

First of all, this is completely pointless in 1.5. And secondly, "hard core clans" have way better things to sink their adena in, rather than denying CHs to random clans they don't care about. You're speaking as if these clans will have billions to spare for such insignificant stuff.

[Gabe 0]

1 minute ago, Fortuna said:

First of all, this is completely pointless in 1.5. And secondly, "hard core clans" have way better things to sink their adena in, rather than denying CHs to random clans they don't care about. You're speaking as if these clans will have billions to spare for such insignificant stuff.

Sure, not at first... But 6 months into the server? 12 months into the server? Especially once 2.0 comes, Adena gets much easier to get in end game content.

Also, they wouldn't need billions of adena, they'd just need more than casual clans.

"denying CHs to random clans they don't care about"

I think you greatly underestimate the toxicity of the L2 community 🤣

 

[Fortuna 112]

I mean, you'd wish they spend them on CHs and not something that would actually benefit them and hard snowball their lead. That's one of the big points of this system. It gives clans a consistent adena sink so they don't stack too many adena. 

Also, this is not interlude, adena are much harder to farm, because spots are limited so you have to fight for almost everything, plus you can't make gigantic destro pulls.

[Rip 697]

40 minutes ago, Gabe said:

With the biddable CH every month, what's stopping the top 10 clans to just put adena on alt clans and bid for 4+ CHs each month?

 

This biddable system really promotes hard core clans while punishing casual/mid-tier clans.

Without the biddable CH every month, what's stopping the top 10 clans to just put adena on alt clans and bid for 4+ CHs at the server beginning?

This no biddable system really promotes hard core clans while punishing casual/mid-tier clans.