Fatal Counter (again)

[Rizos 1487]

bump

I was so eager to use Fatal Counter only to find that it's equal--if not worse--than Double Shot, regardless of max or low HP.

Most of the Phantom Ranger PVP videos you see on YouTube are from Schirner or some other overly-buffed, potion-injected, donation-fueled player on an Asian L2 Classic. These guys are doing massive damage to all classes, and even more when their HP is kept low.

Regardless, looking at the skill on our server and a more regular Classic without all of the extra buff nonsense--Fatal Counter is pretty much useless.

I know suggesting a buff to it is all speculative for most players, but if you've played a PR and used Fatal Counter, you'd recognize that 1. its casting time and high rate of doing damage less than Double Shot and 2. the fact that a regular auto-attack crit does more damage than the skill itself, makes Fatal Counter really, really weak.

I don't think PR would become OP if Fatal Counter were readjusted. I think it would actually bring more purpose to the class and open up the level of play for PVP and even PVE.

On a side note, Fatal Counter's description does not say it can provide a critical hit on our server, when it clearly does crit once every full moon.

​Totally agree. And all this discussion is not about giving some class/skill a buff but its about fixing it to official conditions, not keeping custom nerfs for no reason only to 1 low popular class. PPL complain this skill can 1shot and blablabla........ PPL complain about any skill in l2. They complain about glad banana stun, about WL stuns, about DA fear necro anchor, SK para. Most of classes have their own special skill that is pretty strong and make the class special in this way and attract ppl to play it. Now the question is why would we nerf only fatal counter but keep other classes "special skills" oryginal. Why would we even mess up with skills at all. What makes fatal counter skill deserving 50% dmg nerf but DA fear etc being 100% fine as oryginal?

I repeat myself again its not about buffing some class/skill, its abou fixing it to be same as on official.

You gonna give argument "some ppl came to play here cos they were mad on official after geting high dmg from pr. So now nerf necro glad wl etc etc ppl will come here cos they will be happy there wont be "annoying skills" but this is road with dead end. U make other classes happy but nerfed classes to quit and ppl being unhappy in general because they would play on custom server

[ProGressive 740]

OMG I WAS WAITING THIS SO LONG. Rizos u just said, we need to stay with official conditions. Lets come back to the destro topic, why we give him rush? Don't answer, its other topic, just wanted to show that changing before some updates its stupid. Same might happen with Summoner.

 

And I agree 100% first we have to try how it is in normal classic conditions, only then change something. Same is with automatic fishing, cloaks, c speed atk speed bracelets. And other Korean sh1t. I don't say do everything how they want. But this PR nerf is seriously from nowhere. 

And last thing I want to add, I'm just sad seeing so many archer CPs becoming warriors or mages, maybe this PR fix would bring back some archers. Offcourse, after that will be a lot of crying

[Rizos 1487]

I said in some topic like 3 weeks ago not to add rush before testing new chronicle conditions

 

Hi there! First of all, you are doing a big mistake with a plan to open H5 server.. Cos as i see some of L2 projects preparing/planing to open Classic servers, while you do opposite, trying to open H5 server (and i think of cost of classic server population).. Your classic server was first private server, who got most attention and attracted almost all classic lovers, but then you started to screwing it up.. You gonna ask me how? Simple: You started to making "Custom Classic" not 'Pure Classic" server. You talking about that server is 1+ years old and for new players it would be hard to catch up old players. SO START THINKING! You removed D grade armor quest (that associates with word "custom server" cos you removed a feature of L2 classic) with this Quest newbies would able to play little bit easier and faster to catch up old players. If i'm not mistaken you talked about 2.0 update with some "fixings" and editing some of 2.0 update features (if i remember correctly something about summoners summons and pets soulshots) and again with that it proves you doing custom classic server and screwing it up. why i say custom? Cos i don't like when official L2 features of classic server have been removed, edited, etc. When you started doing this, people got scared of fact that they not gonna get ALL INCLUDED FEATURES IN UPDATE VERSION (like 1.5 and 2.0)...

P.S.: and drop a price of premium acc or change something, like with premium you can run x clients per PC, while free acc able to run MAX 2 clients per PC, who will also let newbie players to box support (or other char) to catch old players..

​I never liked servers with custom features, i mean titanium sets and other crap :D. But here they mostly modify visual things. I support their idea in my opinion they made game better than on offi. Look offi servers like skelth are failing hard cos of bad features which we dont follow. This server doesnt follow any pay2win features which is very good. But i can agree with you up to some degree. Some custom changes are not good for all players. There was announced rush for destro, i supported this idea, but after reading forum for last 2 months, i think it shouldnt be done., and i was wrong. Also we shouldnt decide such things until we play on the new chronicle, cant know how strong some classes gonna be before playing them. Dont add ANY CUSTOM SkILS to any class. What conviced me? Zilions of post from ppl suggesting to add new skills to their classes in name of game balance. If u add only 1 skill to 1 class u break a rule and make every1 spaming to add other skils like "hey you added rush to destro, now add phoenix or smth to paladin cos its weaker than DA, etc".. Some cusrtom changes to skills could be better than oryginal but it would make ppl qq on forum to boost their classes so we cant afford this i think.There were many such posts appearing lately. I think Skills and Items should be saint thing that cant be changed in any case for the name of balance. Once you change one of them ppl gonna ask for more and server gonna fck up. About starting new server, i dunno bout chronicle but making new server is good for whole project to bring more ppl here.

​

[datplays 191]

- i play PR
- my class dont 1 shoot ppl
- if i QQ enough on forum bump my class, nerf other classes
- profit

wtf is this circus parade?

i was playing PR a while, 5-6k dmg on RB with Emi+0

was 1 shooting robes or archer

========

About video, he hit 3k into char w.o buffs that just got resed, big deal, also u dont know their lvl, myby it was just low lvl gank.

Also there is possibility of skill working as description before u "fix" it on ur own will.
The less enemy has hp, the higher dmg it deals. So it has nothing to do with ur own hp. I still believe in that.

 

Here us why Fatal Counter sucks balls

auto attack crit (without death eye) 2386 dmg, Fatal counter 1716 dmg into avadon robe. Now compare it to movie from progressive movie 4k dmg to bw hvy sets

 ​

aha u compare crit dmg (nobody confirm it was normal hit) to fatal counter on full hp, with pics like this we can close the topic, coz it has no sense.

[Rizos 1487]

WOW didnt see such a clueless post for a long time. Read the thread 1st before posting such a bullsh1t. Person who doesnt have ANY clue about the skill the discussion is all about and lives in word of dreams where FC dmg is based on enemy hp. Dude you dont even know how the skill works on our server, not to mention official server and you want us to waste our time and read ur clueless posts here? If u read whole thread mby u wont make clown out of urself next time. Stop huminilating yourself and go back to cave. Its just a good advice for you

 

Here is some link for you because i think ppl like you cant do anything without others pointing em with finger
https://4gameforum.com/threads/594232/

[ProGressive 740]

- i play PR
- my class dont 1 shoot ppl
- if i QQ enough on forum bump my class, nerf other classes
- profit

wtf is this circus parade?

i was playing PR a while, 5-6k dmg on RB with Emi+0

was 1 shooting robes or archer

========

About video, he hit 3k into char w.o buffs that just got resed, big deal, also u dont know their lvl, myby it was just low lvl gank.

Also there is possibility of skill working as description before u "fix" it on ur own will.
The less enemy has hp, the higher dmg it deals. So it has nothing to do with ur own hp. I still believe in that.

 

Here us why Fatal Counter sucks balls

auto attack crit (without death eye) 2386 dmg, Fatal counter 1716 dmg into avadon robe. Now compare it to movie from progressive movie 4k dmg to bw hvy sets

 ​

aha u compare crit dmg (nobody confirm it was normal hit) to fatal counter on full hp, with pics like this we can close the topic, coz it has no sense.

Man PR cant one shot a fuking warcryer in BW robe with 50 % hp. I was not even full CP.

And second thing its not about 1 shot or two shot. It is about "pr is not like in official classic" WHy ? Why its not like in official? So change website l2 custom GOD.

[draco 46]

1st of this PR has been stunned ONCE during whole pvp, he resisted every other debuff. so he was higher lvl than ppl that ganked him, 2nd pr could go +con instead of +str with onehit potential from FC, cuz dmg would be great anyway.

Also when i fought, lets say reaver, i were nowwhere near hitting him for more than 1.2k with crit from hydro blast, so pr with +5 con vs sps with +12 vit at same lvl (around 65) with top eq (bop vs soes, top b +3 jew, b grade sets) if he have like 4k summed cp/hp, thers no way sps can win that, u cant deal 4k dmg in the time of casting FC.

from my point of view thers nothing wrong with pr now. he hits for a lot more than other archers with DS. and hes not that much of a glass cannon

and to sum all up, everyone who wants pr to be boosted is a cp mate of PR who one to oneshot everything, or is a pr that want to oneshot everything.

[Rizos 1487]

1st of this PR has been stunned ONCE during whole pvp, he resisted every other debuff. so he was higher lvl than ppl that ganked him, 2nd pr could go +con instead of +str with onehit potential from FC, cuz dmg would be great anyway.

Also when i fought, lets say reaver, i were nowwhere near hitting him for more than 1.2k with crit from hydro blast, so pr with +5 con vs sps with +12 vit at same lvl (around 65) with top eq (bop vs soes, top b +3 jew, b grade sets) if he have like 4k summed cp/hp, thers no way sps can win that, u cant deal 4k dmg in the time of casting FC.

from my point of view thers nothing wrong with pr now. he hits for a lot more than other archers with DS. and hes not that much of a glass cannon

and to sum all up, everyone who wants pr to be boosted is a cp mate of PR who one to oneshot everything, or is a pr that want to oneshot everything.

​Sure every1 can have his opinion and share it here. I just ask why every class on this server has skills like in official but PR is custom class? Like Progressive said l2 custom god? This pr is higher lvl than enemies on movie, yea so he even makes more dmg. If he hit same lvls dmg would be lower and i dont think its OP so ur argument is broken.

Now pr vs sps: if pr goes on low hp to FC he gets 3 nukes before he can cast fc and he die and loose. IF pr goes on full hp he cast 1st fc for low dmg and SPS can survive for sure even with 2h blunt. Then pr needs to wait 5s for skill reuse and cast another fc like 2s. So Are u trying to tell me SPS cant outdmg during that 7s?

Here are some screenshots from siege, 1st was lucky cos it was crit, 2nd was into avadon robe. OP DMG right? 1shoting every1

[draco 46]

do pr have any othr skill than FC? cuz it seems from ur posts that its the only skill, thers no cd between DS and FC, u have stun shot wich deals around 1/3 or mby 1/2 of the DS and stuns for like 5 sec? or more?

it is balanced now, move on

[datplays 191]

 

Now pr vs sps: if pr goes on low hp to FC he gets 3 nukes before he can cast fc and he die and loose. IF pr goes on full hp he cast 1st fc for low dmg and SPS can survive for sure even with 2h blunt. Then pr needs to wait 5s for skill reuse and cast another fc like 2s. So Are u trying to tell me SPS cant outdmg during that 7s?

 

​Ppl thinking archer is supposed to kill anybody in 1v1 when they duel are just funny
Archer never kill in 1v1 duel, except he land stun.
Archer is not "Duelist" he is not supposed to make "duels" - he is assasin/rogue. He ganks and start fight before enemy even realize he is getting hit by archer. Then he can make as much damage he wants depends on enemy how fast he realize hes getting hit.

So keep dreaming of 1v1 on archer and go back sleep

Before u say: "HURR DURR BUT ON OLYMPIAD ARCHER CANT GANK" 
yes, he can't so deal with it, archer is not class for arena, class for arena is Gladiator as his name says. On archer u can go on castle walls where u belong.

U choose archer so dont except 1v1 its not char for that. 

That's conclusion for u if u alrdy go 50% offtopic. But here is alot of for topic also.

[ProGressive 740]

 

Now pr vs sps: if pr goes on low hp to FC he gets 3 nukes before he can cast fc and he die and loose. IF pr goes on full hp he cast 1st fc for low dmg and SPS can survive for sure even with 2h blunt. Then pr needs to wait 5s for skill reuse and cast another fc like 2s. So Are u trying to tell me SPS cant outdmg during that 7s?

 

​Ppl thinking archer is supposed to kill anybody in 1v1 when they duel are just funny
Archer never kill in 1v1 duel, except he land stun.
Archer is not "Duelist" he is not supposed to make "duels" - he is assasin/rogue. He ganks and start fight before enemy even realize he is getting hit by archer. Then he can make as much damage he wants depends on enemy how fast he realize hes getting hit.

​With this part i agree 100%, archer is a class witch needs full buffs, and full party to be good. But look what we have here archer CP's going warriors and mages? It is not normal, is it ?

And as I said before, why one class changed while other were change after some arguments? Why we dont nerf necro? Nerf gladi? Nerf tyrant? Why its random nerf on dark elf ranger. The question is why it is different from official? People even didn't have chance to test normal PR. That's what i dont understand. And seriously im helping perkunas with this one, because our side has no more archer. But still its stupid.

[Rizos 1487]

 

Now pr vs sps: if pr goes on low hp to FC he gets 3 nukes before he can cast fc and he die and loose. IF pr goes on full hp he cast 1st fc for low dmg and SPS can survive for sure even with 2h blunt. Then pr needs to wait 5s for skill reuse and cast another fc like 2s. So Are u trying to tell me SPS cant outdmg during that 7s?

 

​Ppl thinking archer is supposed to kill anybody in 1v1 when they duel are just funny
Archer never kill in 1v1 duel, except he land stun.
Archer is not "Duelist" he is not supposed to make "duels" - he is assasin/rogue. He ganks and start fight before enemy even realize he is getting hit by archer. Then he can make as much damage he wants depends on enemy how fast he realize hes getting hit.

So keep dreaming of 1v1 on archer and go back sleep

Before u say: "HURR DURR BUT ON OLYMPIAD ARCHER CANT GANK" 
yes, he can't so deal with it, archer is not class for arena, class for arena is Gladiator as his name says. On archer u can go on castle walls where u belong.

U choose archer so dont except 1v1 its not char for that. 

That's conclusion for u if u alrdy go 50% offtopic. But here is alot of for topic also.

​Yes archers are not supposed to be duel class and they are not, they loose vs most of DDs. I dont compare classes in 1v1 condition cos its stupid, i just answered to that guy about sps vs pr cos he brought it 1st. Please stop offtopic, no1 asked u to speak again because you can tbring anything serious to this conversation. U have no clue about the skill so u start ur spam about 1v1.

To the SPS lover  : I thought we speak clearly abouut fatal counter. If u wanna 1v1 mage v archer normal conditions with using all skills then its mostly about stun landing or not, not about FC dmg. Also i would pick sr not pr for such pvp, much bigger chances to win.. But lets end this 1v1 offtopic cos it doesnt bring anything important here.

[D3vilo 73]

OK since couple of fellow PR could visit this topic I need to ask one thing.

Does anyone tried on test server some weird dye set up on PR like full CON+Doom Heavy+low HP FC farm?

I was planning to play with different stats but test server was too much to carry on for me

[Rizos 1487]

FC is not about "hp missing VALUE" but "HP missing %tage"> for example if u have  have 100hp/10 000 max hp ull do same dmg as if u had 10 hp/1 000max hp.

About farming with fatal counter unfortunately its not worth here cos it does smilar dmg to auto attack crits. U know PRs exped too fast, many of them outlvled rest of server by 10 lvls so admins had to nerf not only their pvp dmg but also solo pve tool  .

Ok jokes aside, if u wanna farm with FC, ull make same %/20 min if u go 1shot doom knights and box ee for recharge, as if u woudl box pp + pr. Atleast ppl have some alternative to exp with friend ee or if pp is taken.

edit: here u can see how it works in LOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6c81uGVARvE
not worth the mana

[Haibara 23]

and no one here plays with a TH in 1.0 , 1.3 & 1.5 ...   hahaha...

[Aduha 259]

 

 

Don't forget to x2 damage that was inflicted to Necromancers (cuz of TP )

[Rizos 1487]

yes so low hp and so low dmg, to necro 1600 + 1600 summon, to archer not even 3k, double shot crit on full hp does more :P. Explain much why no1 plays this char anymore. Now imagine killing wl/tyrant/glad and other warriors when u make 1-2k dmg to them and they have 10+k hp cp. Thats why i said it much more worth not to risk ur life and pray for crits with auto attack- more dmg and safe and easy for healer> double shot seems to be better- MUCH more crit rate and can be casted on full hp

[Aduha 259]

yes so low hp and so low dmg, to necro 1600 + 1600 summon, to archer not even 3k, double shot crit on full hp does more :P. Explain much why no1 plays this char anymore. Now imagine killing wl/tyrant/glad and other warriors when u make 1-2k dmg to them and they have 10+k hp cp. Thats why i said it much more worth not to risk ur life and pray for crits with auto attack- more dmg and safe and easy for healer> double shot seems to be better- MUCH more crit rate and can be casted on full hp

​its 3200 to necro and 3200 to summon.

but anyway its works different than on original verion,

[Rizos 1487]

So u think u hit avadon necro for 6,4k and Bw light HE for 3k? necro has 2x lower p def than ligh HE? its 1,6k + 1,6k bro

[qloc01 207]

bump

I was so eager to use Fatal Counter only to find that it's equal--if not worse--than Double Shot, regardless of max or low HP.

Most of the Phantom Ranger PVP videos you see on YouTube are from Schirner or some other overly-buffed, potion-injected, donation-fueled player on an Asian L2 Classic. These guys are doing massive damage to all classes, and even more when their HP is kept low.

Regardless, looking at the skill on our server and a more regular Classic without all of the extra buff nonsense--Fatal Counter is pretty much useless.

I know suggesting a buff to it is all speculative for most players, but if you've played a PR and used Fatal Counter, you'd recognize that 1. its casting time and high rate of doing damage less than Double Shot and 2. the fact that a regular auto-attack crit does more damage than the skill itself, makes Fatal Counter really, really weak.

I don't think PR would become OP if Fatal Counter were readjusted. I think it would actually bring more purpose to the class and open up the level of play for PVP and even PVE.

On a side note, Fatal Counter's description does not say it can provide a critical hit on our server, when it clearly does crit once every full moon.

​Totally agree. And all this discussion is not about giving some class/skill a buff but its about fixing it to official conditions, not keeping custom nerfs for no reason only to 1 low popular class. PPL complain this skill can 1shot and blablabla........ PPL complain about any skill in l2. They complain about glad banana stun, about WL stuns, about DA fear necro anchor, SK para. Most of classes have their own special skill that is pretty strong and make the class special in this way and attract ppl to play it. Now the question is why would we nerf only fatal counter but keep other classes "special skills" oryginal. Why would we even mess up with skills at all. What makes fatal counter skill deserving 50% dmg nerf but DA fear etc being 100% fine as oryginal?

I repeat myself again its not about buffing some class/skill, its abou fixing it to be same as on official.

You gonna give argument "some ppl came to play here cos they were mad on official after geting high dmg from pr. So now nerf necro glad wl etc etc ppl will come here cos they will be happy there wont be "annoying skills" but this is road with dead end. U make other classes happy but nerfed classes to quit and ppl being unhappy in general because they would play on custom server

​

 i think Lin is more sane in this discussion, FC need adjustment, but not like original one, as you see, they dont need to get their hp that low, only 1k5-2k/5k5 hp, and they deal 2k-3k per shot on heavy, almost 1 shot for mage, is that sane to you?

 

[Aduha 259]

So u think u hit avadon necro for 6,4k and Bw light HE for 3k? necro has 2x lower p def than ligh HE? its 1,6k + 1,6k bro

​yeap crit 30% hp to necro, and default with 50% hp to HE

[Rizos 1487]

Here is SKELTH movie - EU official so u wont talk "its korean server blalblabla"

DOuble shot CRIT 2700 dmg, fatal counter 7200 dmg with 400/2200 hp. When im home i make test on our server but i can bet its gonna be 2700 double shot crit and 3600 FC

 

 

[datplays 191]

Here is SKELTH movie - EU official so u wont talk "its korean server blalblabla"

DOuble shot CRIT 2700 dmg, fatal counter 7200 dmg with 400/2200 hp. When im home i make test on our server but i can bet its gonna be 2700 double shot crit and 3600 FC

 

 

​Yes, these characters re in C (wow maybe one is in zubei B ! dont see so clearly) grade robes. Archer is in PL, i guess +12 STR. Full PP buff + g.might, u dont know what lvl PP buffs re those, maybe its top lvl g.might.

So if he dealt 7k dmg i see no problem with it.

All ur posts re contrary, so tell us again what u expect?

If u want 7k dmg on C grade robes by archer PL set, +12 STR Dyes, high lvl PP buffs - u have it, theres nothing to be change.
Now go away in peace.

[Rizos 1487]

Dmg on our server its nowhere close to dmg on this movie. U can dream about ur 7k dmg into c grade here

What i want? I want PR to be fixed to be same as in official, not bugged. Ill log test server make pr 59 with +12 str pl set emi +3 and pp 75 buff and shoot into fking unbuffed ee 40 in divine set so u cant find any excuse pr on movie had better conditions. ANd i can bet with u im gonna make much lower dmg than the pr on this movie.
My point is to see doubleshot dmg and compare it to fatal counter dmg. Proportion should be +/- same regardles of items. If he crit DS for 2.7 and FC for 7200 then on our server if i crit with ds for 3k, i should do like 8k dmg with fc on 15% hp but i make 4k not 8k. Its ONLY 50% weaker, who cares right? Only 50% who would even care about such a marginal nerf.

Ok ill tell u 1 funny story. I think most of us agree that Glad is pretty strong class here (not to say OP). Now let glad have 3 sec aoe reuse (on offi its 10s) and triple sonic slach 5s reuse (on offi it has 10s). U Know, ppl like gladis so let them have more fun ^^. So since every1 loves gladi let him have bugged skills for over half year but instead lets nerf PR dmg by 50% cos u know, no1 loves black skinned sh1ty archer, ppl are racist etc etc and PR much more OP than gladi right?  Now here is a competition. 1st correct answer wins a cookie. This story is real, question is on which server didit happen. 1st corect anser wins a cookie

 

edit: Damn i forgot test server is off :x

[ProGressive 740]

Here is SKELTH movie - EU official so u wont talk "its korean server blalblabla"

DOuble shot CRIT 2700 dmg, fatal counter 7200 dmg with 400/2200 hp. When im home i make test on our server but i can bet its gonna be 2700 double shot crit and 3600 FC

 

 

​Yes, these characters re in C (wow maybe one is in zubei B ! dont see so clearly) grade robes. Archer is in PL, i guess +12 STR. Full PP buff + g.might, u dont know what lvl PP buffs re those, maybe its top lvl g.might.

So if he dealt 7k dmg i see no problem with it.

All ur posts re contrary, so tell us again what u expect?

If u want 7k dmg on C grade robes by archer PL set, +12 STR Dyes, high lvl PP buffs - u have it, theres nothing to be change.
Now go away in peace.

​Man thats the point. U wont shoot 7 k into sws FP here.