Questioning Summoners

[VILEN 12]

2 minutes ago, Donkihot said:

Nobody is crying about things I highlighted  When did u see last post about ppl crying because daggers are strong? LOL. Nobody is crying about SK, because there is DA, and now DA isnt meta anymore, expect Oly, because u have puri song. PR archers, it is like 50/50 They can be really strong or really dead by 1 random AOE.

When u see whole server populated with same classses it means something is wrong. 
I see new ppl, who level out of meta classes, at lvl 40-60 ~ cause Im levling box atm my self. But I Dont see them on 70+ then I log my main. That means they see that meta isnt TH so they just re roll to tyr or any other class
Same for me, I was passionate to level mage, I really love mages especially SPS.  I leveled one, but.. no way Im going to play SPS if he has same dmg as 40 lvl summoner pet at lvl 74

Friend, please do not write nonsense!
Don't forget about hands and chance.
Yesterday at Olympus I won 81 DA and lost 78 DA.

Cool, isn't it?
If you want to play the magician - so play.
Look at the former party sjeks. 1pt vs 3-4pt for easy.

[Donkihot 114]

7 minutes ago, VILEN said:

People play whoever they want.

no, people play meta. Not what they want.  where is 0 % chance that ppl who play tyrant are like tyrant by his skills etc, they like tyrant because he is pve/pvp machine, strong pew pew, has 15k+ hp etc.  And as I said, do u see mages? lol. I bet u do, and Im pretty sure ppl like mages, but they dont play it because they suck. Gosh why I even bother explaining to u that meta exist and ppl choose what is the strongest option instead what they like.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Donkihot

[Donkihot 114]

6 minutes ago, VILEN said:

Friend, please do not write nonsense!
Don't forget about hands and chance.
Yesterday at Olympus I won 81 DA and lost 78 DA.

Cool, isn't it?
If you want to play the magician - so play.
Look at the former party sjeks. 1pt vs 3-4pt for easy.

it is cool then u're ES LOL jeez.  Try winning DA with mage/dagger/archer xDDDDDDDDD

Or even more, try winning es 77+ with dagger/mage/archer xDDD

Edited August 16, 2020 by Donkihot

[Yomana 437]

1 hour ago, Donkihot said:

it is cool then u're ES LOL jeez.  Try winning DA with mage/dagger/archer xDDDDDDDDD

Or even more, try winning es 77+ with dagger/mage/archer xDDD

ES 77-79 is food for daggers.

Only 80 lvl are a bit more difficult and even then dagger can win.

[MoDoy 1772]

4 hours ago, iPlanar said:

I Just wonna say, thay u Cant suggest only on fraps from off cuz if u doesnt know(but im a player Who played and fight VS this guys) on this fraps u doesnt knows equip and lvl on chars. 

So, Just wonna say that Spin/iromena/gunsalez/vivid is top pack of CL of RMT and they get on fucking 80rbs unbalanced exp, so, for example, spin was 84lvl,all anothers in his party was 82+ and opposition had only 80(81 in Best case) lvls. U Need to keep it in mind. 

About equip also, this 4 ponys got full boost and full equip, but opposition in 70% got lower equip. 

But, yea, pony was OP after they get 77magnus and BE stronger in every patch(when system of elemnts was added in game it was fucking crazy input dmg and u controlled Pet). 

And also on offi it was a lot of boosters like Pvp Red fruit(that can add 5% to damage in pvp or - 5% of all input damage), fucking unbalanced transforms, dolls, potions and etc, etc, etc. Also it was some 10000% unbalanced passive skills for 80+ lvls, for example if u reach 84 u got +25% in pvp damage!! And if u reach for example 81 it was only +3 or 5%.

So,just forgot About offi sh1ts and try to find balance on l2classic.club

Ty for attention

i know very well about situation on gran kain and i also know who spin is, thats why i linked one of his older videos from antharas patch, when there is no seraphim, there is no ranking system and no 80+ passives and i can guarantee you that people are able to get better gear here on club than what he has on that video  (i know his recent videos are crap and thats why i am not comparing how he goes solo to FoG and kills full parties solo)

1 hour ago, Donkihot said:

Nobody is crying about things I highlighted  When did u see last post about ppl crying because daggers are strong? LOL. Nobody is crying about SK, because there is DA, and now DA isnt meta anymore, expect Oly, because u have puri song. PR archers, it is like 50/50 They can be really strong or really dead by 1 random AOE.

When u see whole server populated with same classses it means something is wrong. 
I see new ppl, who level out of meta classes, at lvl 40-60 ~ cause Im levling box atm my self. But I Dont see them on 70+ then I log my main. That means they see that meta isnt TH so they just re roll to tyr or any other class
Same for me, I was passionate to level mage, I really love mages especially SPS.  I leveled one, but.. no way Im going to play SPS if he has same dmg as 40 lvl summoner pet at lvl 74

meta exists in every game, some people prefer it easy way, some people like to play whatever they want and try to make it work, even if they need more gear and they know they might not be as efficient as they would be if they went for meta pick. Just because class is not top in everything or even anything, doesnt mean the class is utter poop  

 

1 hour ago, Donkihot said:

it is cool then u're ES LOL jeez.  Try winning DA with mage/dagger/archer xDDDDDDDDD

Or even more, try winning es 77+ with dagger/mage/archer xDDD

were there, done that, is that actually impressive? because i am pretty sure dagger has upper hand in summoner match up ;d

[Lunareaia 32]

Weeeell,i've had a 3k+3k+1.5k from summoner nuke in oly,maybe the damage would be fine if not for the fact,that summoners just take a new magnus out of their asses as soon as you CC one,and hug the beloved pillars.and then there is our beloved transfer pain which basically says "fuck you".

[Donkihot 114]

20 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

were there, done that, is that actually impressive? because i am pretty sure dagger has upper hand in summoner match up ;d

yea I wrote that when I was triggered, didnt thought about that normally.  But still, u got the point. You can basiclly kite around every class in oly with es. + stun from that pony gives u time to hide again behind pillar for re-summon like @Lunareaia said and kite it again. 

but fck it, w/e. gm's are not balancing anything for years, so why we even bother chatting here.

People like u Modoy, idk, Rizos? who is really good at the game, already made 11455 topic about classes like Daggers/archers, gave literally formulas, etc that shows that this class sucks/underpowered etc, but we still see no changes. whatsoever.

 I will continue playing meta, others will do the same, F people who will not. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Donkihot

[SemenArsonist 568]

If you have to nerf them, nerf the utility, not the damage, so you dont hurt their mass pvp capabilities. DAs are still miles ahead of them in oly in my opinion, they are the class that should be nerfed before any other class.

[Noveria 31]

I think the damage is justified, cuz their main damage comes from pony, not from the summoner, so it wouldn't be elegant to nerf it completely. Where it gets ridiculous: the fact that they can endlessly abuse resummoning (i think it would be fair to make some sort of penalty, longer cd or casting speed on that thing) and spamming stun/tidal/stun/tidal (and if owner has more fingers than you usually expect from the regular pony, it can also nuke you with summoner), so u just get nuked all the time without a break, add a bane and transfer pain and you're basically done.
And lets not forget the fact that summoner is the only class that can fight while being on mount, send a pet from a mile away, and if something goes bad they can easily escape, they get no punishment for that. Why can't we use skills/nukes/buffs/ds and other stuff while being on mount as well?

Edited August 16, 2020 by Noveria

[Yomana 437]

If you want to nerf sunmoner on oly , change banes like they did in official (if im not wrong).

Make banes DEBUFF (resistable by guard) and not canceling buffs. 

That is actually a pretty big nerf if they cant remove your acumen/haste/ww whenever they want 

[Eldifes 32]

but for reals how you imagine balancing olympiad ? then it affects open world. you have to make seprate skills to ballance oly and open. nerf summons then you will need tyrants tanks and its never ending cycle always were will be class above all 

Only way i see to nerf summoners is lowering dm but giving them kiss of eva in open 

[telikas 12]

lets make compromise change cd of summoning summon from couple secs to 30 sec or 40 sec in oly 

[MoDoy 1772]

29 minutes ago, telikas said:

lets make compromise change cd of summoning summon from couple secs to 30 sec or 40 sec in oly 

how exactly is that a compromise??

[Eldifes 32]

ignore him he dosent know what logic is

i hate summoners but this shiit would make even me quit the game

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Eldifes

[FryderykChopin 853]

5 hours ago, Noveria said:

Where it gets ridiculous: the fact that they can endlessly abuse resummoning

I believe this is the cornerstone of the entire issue.

I don't want to go much into "how it should be fixed" since I don't really have that kind of experience with summs on classic, but what if they were a bit tweaked so that summons would have longer cooldowns, but in return they would be a tankier + had some special strong debuff resist passive? I know it's a controversial idea to actually make summoners finally learn Servitor Heal but in their current state the summons like pony feel like slightly more interactive cubics that either IK you or follow you around and there's an absolute f*ckall you can do about them; if it was made that if summs actually had to care about the summons it would open some more problem solving windows...

[Rizos 1487]

6 hours ago, Donkihot said:

yea I wrote that when I was triggered, didnt thought about that normally.  But still, u got the point. You can basiclly kite around every class in oly with es. + stun from that pony gives u time to hide again behind pillar for re-summon like @Lunareaia said and kite it again. 

but fck it, w/e. gm's are not balancing anything for years, so why we even bother chatting here.

People like u Modoy, idk, Rizos? who is really good at the game, already made 11455 topic about classes like Daggers/archers, gave literally formulas, etc that shows that this class sucks/underpowered etc, but we still see no changes. whatsoever.

 I will continue playing meta, others will do the same, F people who will not. 

Give them time, some weeks ago this archer/dagger dmg was speculation. I gave proper proofs bout dagger several days ago, i think they will fix it within 1-2 weeks

[Rizos 1487]

6 hours ago, SemenArsonist said:

If you have to nerf them, nerf the utility, not the damage, so you dont hurt their mass pvp capabilities. DAs are still miles ahead of them in oly in my opinion, they are the class that should be nerfed before any other class.

agree, if majorty of ppl think summoners break oly(i dont think so, there are better classes, yep DA), mby consider some nerf for pet resummon or cast speed, or recharge/heal mana cost reduction but summon mana cost increase. Imo dont make banes debuf(like mama asked) cos this influence mostly mass pvp capabilities of summoners, not oly and will make summoner even worse on mass pvp.

If u want to nerf DA further, remove retarded heal

 

  

2 hours ago, FryderykChopin said:

I believe this is the cornerstone of the entire issue.

I don't want to go much into "how it should be fixed" since I don't really have that kind of experience with summs on classic, but what if they were a bit tweaked so that summons would have longer cooldowns, but in return they would be a tankier + had some special strong debuff resist passive? I know it's a controversial idea to actually make summoners finally learn Servitor Heal but in their current state the summons like pony feel like slightly more interactive cubics that either IK you or follow you around and there's an absolute f*ckall you can do about them; if it was made that if summs actually had to care about the summons it would open some more problem solving windows...

summons already have some kind of debuf resistence passive, ask any necro/wc he will tell u how these sh1ts resist fear. Add to it pow or w/e that gives 20% debuf resist. About tankiness, exp 80 if u want ur summon to be tanky, i think its pretty fair and blocks these 77 boxes from being OP

Edited August 16, 2020 by Rizos

[Donkihot 114]

10 hours ago, VILEN said:

Every time I read posts of this nature, I almost cry with laughter.
Always someone, something not to like.
Dark Avenger - Fear and Cancel + pet
Phantom Ranger - CDL
Daggers - double damage with skill
Summoners - strong damage from skills.
Tyrants - cd spam skills
Shilen Knight - Paralysis and Cubes
Now we have strengthened the Eve Knight and will soon see a new post on this matter.

Question!
Doesn't it bother anyone that pets don't get bonuses from runes, epics, + sets ?!

You will never have an uber class for Olympus, pvp!
There is a huge difference in self and full buff gameplay!

Stop crying!

 we get it, we get it bro.

[Werew 74]

Dmg is fine and I do take 1,5k+ dmg  from skills in oly on tank, they are DD in the end, the problem is that they can tank more dmg than tanks and played well even if they don't have the ablity to burst, in a 3/4 min fight  I beleve they can out dps most of the DD's so as dmg  they are fine now.

In oly it can be adjusted easy by increasing summon/ cubics cast/cd to be like 3/4 sec with oly buffs, an update banes to be debuffs like on off but set them to ignore puri song this way will still be usable in open pvp,also other option is to increase transfer pain mana cost acording to lvl, is the only togle that you can have it on and forget about it till you log off

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Werew

[Autiampouras 5]

bring back CD from IC at DA like before....

[JaneDo 25]

How can you guys compare DA with ponys . DAs same as Necros are a class that is completely  depended on epic like i pointed out in discord some days ago. If u wanna farm in oly with those 2 classes you need to invest billions adenas of gear. Ponys on the other hand can roll in and farm with just a clean set and some shity jewels... I ve been 2 shoted along with magic barrier/Bless body and transfer pain several  times before . The power of the water skill is just huge (especially this one) . I invited  Koll before to come and watch the olympiad games  just for one day. People keep saying "look rizos dmg" , "look those chinese DAs" and none try to make a gear comparision . 1 chinese DA is farming yes but that person might have 20kkk gear on him . Am pretty sure that all the ponys that play every friday and saturday combined (and there are alot) wont even get close to that amount. 

In my opinion some nerfs should be made atleast on the Elemental Summoner. Am pretty sure that even if they get nerfed they will still be top farmers .

[MoDoy 1772]

44 minutes ago, JaneDo said:

How can you guys compare DA with ponys . DAs same as Necros are a class that is completely  depended on epic like i pointed out in discord some days ago. If u wanna farm in oly with those 2 classes you need to invest billions adenas of gear. Ponys on the other hand can roll in and farm with just a clean set and some shity jewels... I ve been 2 shoted along with magic barrier/Bless body and transfer pain several  times before . The power of the water skill is just huge (especially this one) . I invited  Koll before to come and watch the olympiad games  just for one day. People keep saying "look rizos dmg" , "look those chinese DAs" and none try to make a gear comparision . 1 chinese DA is farming yes but that person might have 20kkk gear on him . Am pretty sure that all the ponys that play every friday and saturday combined (and there are alot) wont even get close to that amount. 

In my opinion some nerfs should be made atleast on the Elemental Summoner. Am pretty sure that even if they get nerfed they will still be top farmers .

necro is epics dependant, DA? not really because of how high his horror/shield stun land rate is, 77 DA without epics can kill 90% ppl in olympiad and thats more than 77 ES without gear can kill, so no, you dont need billions of adena to farm on DA (well, maybe if you are chinese you do, because without gear they would lose even on DA)

stop the crap, you werent two shotted by ungeared 77 lvl ES, same like nansey was saying and when i actually did the test in comparison with gear, stop dreaming they do such damage

pretty sure if you lose to those lolo ponies that play every friday/saturday, you would lose to lolo DAs as well, they are so bad that it hurts

ES was never top farmer, it was always competing at high rank in olympiad, but was never top farmer, not when their nuke was boosted and not now when their summon damage is boosted and fear is nerfed

fun fact: when nuke damage was boosted on summoner for 1-2 weeks, i am pretty sure average win rate of summoners actually lowered, because they started to be less careful and threw some of the matches  

[Sensei 460]

6 hours ago, Rizos said:

Imo dont make banes debuf(like mama asked)

if not mistaken, on official Banes have a way lower chance to cancel but here its close to 100%.
It would make a lot of sense if that cancel was affected by mental success/resist of user/target.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Sensei

[Sensei 460]

8 minutes ago, MoDoy said:

necro is epics dependant, DA? not really because of how high his horror/shield stun land rate is, 77 DA without epics can kill 90% ppl in olympiad and thats more than 77 ES without gear can kill, so no, you dont need billions of adena to farm on DA
 

fun fact: when nuke damage was boosted on summoner for 1-2 weeks, i am pretty sure average win rate of summoners actually lowered, because they started to be less careful and threw some of the matches  

Give me back right now the 30 seconds I spent to read (and re-read to make sure I didn't read wrong) that epic crap!

Yikes!

Edited August 17, 2020 by Sensei

[MoDoy 1772]

19 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Give me back right now the 30 seconds I spent to read (and re-read to make sure I didn't read wrong) that epic crap!

Yikes!

am i really supposed to go and play epicless DA just to prove the point? also you can go ask lafi or antifun (well, even i was playing before nuke change summoner and after nuke change summoner, so i guess i would know better than you )  if their winrate got boosted or not when the nuke on summoners was increased, coz i am pretty sure it wasnt really increased, more like altered (for example they were able to win destros with boosted nuke, but on other hand they lost to some DA they would win otherwise if they werent nuking)

Edited August 17, 2020 by MoDoy